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Electric blankets are an option that has been discussed at length, how about we talk about the thread’s subject here and start a second thread about blankets, hats, electric socks, chemical hand warmers, grandma’s hand made Christmas sweater, mitts versus gloves, boot liners and snowmobile suits on the other thread.
I’m interested in this thread and the potshots are getting quite annoying
I drove 180 miles on Monday and used 0% for climate in -5 F weather. These blanket people are silly.
 

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Other than a stupid comparison between a RAV4 and a Model X, it seemed pretty accurate to me. Personally, I would not own an EV in a cold weather climate until things improve.
In a car like the Bolt the battery would need to be 100 Kwh then. Installing a parking heater is the improvement.
 

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That's weird, I'm used to seeing middle 3s at 65 in summer, not all the way down at 3.0

Either way, adding an Espar should get me to the mid-upper 3s on my commute from the high 2s, but more importantly - change the trip to my parents in the winter from "extreme borderline, hop in the old Subaru" to "comfortably doable".

Also - you linked to the 4 kW D4E, not the D5E - did you buy from heatso or somewhere else? (Someone else linked to another vendor that seemed to include more addons for a lower price, but maybe that vendor was shady.)

Also - did you consider the bypass one-way valve for when you're not running the Espar? I'm still trying to figure out how you were getting cold air when in recirc, unless you'd disabled recirc without knowing it (defog button), and also how a 5 kW heater was significantly warmer than 7.5 kW unless the electric heater was contributing something to the mix when testing the Espar, or the Espar was interfering with circulation when you had it turned off.
Some observations I have now that I've played with it a little bit.
  1. First I don't know why it was cold except for the fact it was really cold that day and I had the heat all the way up and it seems that the 7kw heater can't keep up when set all the way up. Someday, if I think about, it i'll try to recreate it but I don't think the recirc was the issue.
  2. I was under the impression that just turning off the Heat/AC button would disengage the electric heat but I found out that if I turn the temp up to Hi the electric heater will engage even though the Heat/AC button is off.
  3. Best operational model seems to be to deselect the Heat/AC, set the temp around 70 with the fan at 2 or 3 and the floor and defrost vents selected. This setup keeps the windows clear and the cabin warm even in -20 F weather.
  4. I preheat the car while plugged in to the 6kw charger at home while starting the Espar, with the two working in tandem I get hot air in about 2 / 3 minutes and usually have 0 or 1% energy use on the climate report.
 

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Some observations I have now that I've played with it a little bit.
  1. First I don't know why it was cold except for the fact it was really cold that day and I had the heat all the way up and it seems that the 7kw heater can't keep up when set all the way up. Someday, if I think about, it i'll try to recreate it but I don't think the recirc was the issue.
  2. I was under the impression that just turning off the Heat/AC button would disengage the electric heat but I found out that if I turn the temp up to Hi the electric heater will engage even though the Heat/AC button is off.
  3. Best operational model seems to be to deselect the Heat/AC, set the temp around 70 with the fan at 2 or 3 and the floor and defrost vents selected. This setup keeps the windows clear and the cabin warm even in -20 F weather.
  4. I preheat the car while plugged in to the 6kw charger at home while starting the Espar, with the two working in tandem I get hot air in about 2 / 3 minutes and usually have 0 or 1% energy use on the climate report.
Nice, I'm going to try and get one of these soon. I may have preferred pricing with the local dealer of Espar's as we spend a few Million a year on units/parts for our fleet of reefers and trucks with work.
 

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@MN Bolt would there be any benefit in insulating the coolant lines and tank? Kind of like what people do with their home water heaters? I can only imagine that the coolant reservoir and lines are radiating away some of the heat into the "engine" compartment. It may be an inexpensive way to incrementally improve performance. Every BTU counts.
 

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@MN Bolt would there be any benefit in insulating the coolant lines and tank? Kind of like what people do with their home water heaters? I can only imagine that the coolant reservoir and lines are radiating away some of the heat into the "engine" compartment. It may be an inexpensive way to incrementally improve performance. Every BTU counts.
Good idea. on an ICE unit the engine compartment gets all hot and toasty once the engine is running so less important but the EV would not at all and a few feet of insulation may make a real difference.
 

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2022 Bolt EUV Premier w/ Sun n Sound
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Nice, I'm going to try and get one of these soon. I may have preferred pricing with the local dealer of Espar's as we spend a few Million a year on units/parts for our fleet of reefers and trucks with work.
Not to mention you must have a good used one kicking around somewhere in the shop.......
 
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Some observations I have now that I've played with it a little bit.
  1. First I don't know why it was cold except for the fact it was really cold that day and I had the heat all the way up and it seems that the 7kw heater can't keep up when set all the way up. Someday, if I think about, it i'll try to recreate it but I don't think the recirc was the issue.
  2. I was under the impression that just turning off the Heat/AC button would disengage the electric heat but I found out that if I turn the temp up to Hi the electric heater will engage even though the Heat/AC button is off.
  3. Best operational model seems to be to deselect the Heat/AC, set the temp around 70 with the fan at 2 or 3 and the floor and defrost vents selected. This setup keeps the windows clear and the cabin warm even in -20 F weather.
  4. I preheat the car while plugged in to the 6kw charger at home while starting the Espar, with the two working in tandem I get hot air in about 2 / 3 minutes and usually have 0 or 1% energy use on the climate report.
Interestingly, the "Auto Defog" setting (buried deep in settings) appears to be independent of whether anything is "auto" on the main console. I've been seeing unusually high power consumption this year for recirc, and it disappeared after turning off Auto Defog. Strangely, I did NOT have this problem last year - if I didn't manually turn on defog, I got fog and low power consumption. I do wonder if it was an oddball side effect of my new heat soak strategy - I run 82+recirc+full fan when preconditioning on the charger, then drop to 72+recirc+fan4 when I depart - usually drops heater down to nothing for a while.

Higher fan settings will probably be more efficient, but keeping the cabin temp setting low when the Espar is running should result in almost no electric consumption except at initial warmup. On the other hand, if you don't want the electric kicking in, you'll want to drop the fan settings when you cycle on the defogger so that the Espar alone can heat up external air.
 

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Interestingly, the "Auto Defog" setting (buried deep in settings) appears to be independent of whether anything is "auto" on the main console.
That is exactly how ours has worked for four and a half years. There are probably a hundred posts, going back that far, saying, "Go into settings and turn of Auto Defog."
 

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That is exactly how ours has worked for four and a half years. There are probably a hundred posts, going back that far, saying, "Go into settings and turn of Auto Defog."
The weird thing is, even though I never turned it off before - my vehicle was behaving like it was off last year.
 

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The weird thing is, even though I never turned it off before - my vehicle was behaving like it was off last year.
Yeah. It is the default setting. Anybody else drive your Bolt? Or maybe you did it long ago and forgot. Don't know how old you are, but I find it happens more and more often now. Can't imagine why. ;)
 

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Not to mention you must have a good used one kicking around somewhere in the shop.......
Except they mostly install the air to air versions, not the coolant ones in the tractors. I should ask the reefer techs though and see if they have them on those for pre-heating for better startups!
 

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Except they mostly install the air to air versions, not the coolant ones in the tractors. I should ask the reefer techs though and see if they have them on those for pre-heating for better startups!
Interesting....a good portion of the tractors out this way use the coolant heater and/or both. School bus fleets are almost entirely coolant heater style in Ontario. The good news is that Webasto and Espar both make a wide range of both air and coolant heaters.
 
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Interesting....a good portion of the tractors out this way use the coolant heater and/or both. School bus fleets are almost entirely coolant heater style in Ontario. The good news is that Webasto and Espar both make a wide range of both air and coolant heaters.
Yep, I was just chatting with my co-worker at lunch. He was saying he knew we just did a huge batch of the Webasto bunk heaters but wasn't sure if we did the coolant or not. Going to talk to one of our techs next time I go up to the shop.
 

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Except they mostly install the air to air versions, not the coolant ones in the tractors. I should ask the reefer techs though and see if they have them on those for pre-heating for better startups!
Personally I wouldn't bother with a used one from a semi unless it was rebuilt or had been barely used, the service life of a S3 is 3000 hours, that would go by fast on a semi. The install is very simple outside of fabricating a mounting system for the unit and fuel tank. I spent 10x more time on figuring out how versus actually doing it. My theory on this is, you want these things to work all of the time so why try to save a few hundred bucks while go through the hassle of building the mounting and installing it? Expect to pay $1200 or so and just be done with it.
 

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Personally I wouldn't bother with a used one from a semi unless it was rebuilt or had been barely used, the service life of a S3 is 3000 hours, that would go by fast on a semi. The install is very simple outside of fabricating a mounting system for the unit and fuel tank. I spent 10x more time on figuring out how versus actually doing it. My theory on this is, you want these things to work all of the time so why try to save a few hundred bucks while go through the hassle of building the mounting and installing it? Expect to pay $1200 or so and just be done with it.
Sorry I should have put a smiley in there.....meaning he works for a transport company that just did a huge batch of heaters so likely the supplier or rep might have a really good deal on a "used" hydronic unit or "demo" unit...that sort of thing.
Although, some rough math indicates I probably had close to 3500 hours on mine and never a problem, just regular filter changes.
 

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Sorry I should have put a smiley in there.....meaning he works for a transport company that just did a huge batch of heaters so likely the supplier or rep might have a really good deal on a "used" hydronic unit or "demo" unit...that sort of thing.
Although, some rough math indicates I probably had close to 3500 hours on mine and never a problem, just regular filter changes.
I am hoping to get the unit and install items at cost "New". Or if I can get on off a wrecked low hours unit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #139 ·
My impression is that there is not much to clean/replace for a full overhaul (in the gasoline fired ones, at least) - the combustion chamber and heat exchangers need a clean, a new set of gaskets - that's it.
 

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My impression is that there is not much to clean/replace for a full overhaul (in the gasoline fired ones, at least) - the combustion chamber and heat exchangers need a clean, a new set of gaskets - that's it.
Yes, and if using kerosene it would be just the same, ethanol you'd never need to clean the things. My fireplace that burns the 95% has never needed a cleaning in 3 winters.
 
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