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Discussion Starter #1
Its no surprise that the electrical grid was not designed with the widespread demands of EVs in every home in mind...

There will be some interesting side effects of forced EV growth at home and abroad...

A battery-reliant electric car can use more power than all your televisions, computers, air conditioning and swimming pool pumps in the home combined.“You may save on petrol, but considering the increase in electricity prices, there really is no cost-benefit as of yet.”

The additional demand placed on the electricity grid is another concern – energy companies in the United States, that sees an average of 50,000 electric cars sold per annum, have already expressed their concern about the additional pressure these vehicles are placing on the system. “Plugging an electric vehicle into your home is the equivalent of adding three houses to the grid. When owners install dedicated electric charging stations to charge more quickly, it can be a significant burden. A modest home draws about 3000 watts of energy at most. Some of these vehicles can draw 16,800 watts off a fast charger.”
Unreal...
 

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You are obvious not an Electrical Engineer nor have the latest information of the utility power reserves. I am an EE and I know the reserves of my local utility PREPA (Puerto Rico Electrical Power Authority). All the utilities supply more electrical energy during the day, due to "televisions, computers, air conditioning and swimming pool pumps in homes", plus the air conditioning, illumination, personal computers, data servers, communication servers, escalators, elevators, ovens, stoves, water heaters, gasoline pumps, air pumps, and other electrical systems in business and commercial sites, and especially in shopping centers and malls. At night, the loads drop considerably and there is a huge surplus of power. The generators never stop turning (never "turned off" at night) and run 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and 365 days a year (except for programmed service downtime and occasional failures.

So all the utilities have enough surplus power to charge millions of electric vehicles every night and actually this does good to them because they are able to bill that surplus. so they offer reduced rates using TOS (Time of Service) costs. The most common EV is the Chevy Volt , and it charges up to 3.3kW per hour and up to 4 hours a night. That is less power than one electric stove top cooking a full meal, or one oven roasting a turkey or a ham (measure them and see for yourself). This phrase is not true:"A modest home draws about 3000 watts of energy at most." They draw much more. If you could, try to imagen or estimate all the electrical power consumed during Thanksgiving Day or Christmas Eve, yet all the utilities can handle that. Our PREPA utility wants EVs to charge, even installing free charger stations, so they can give away their surplus. Only Nissan and BMW sell their BEVs here, with more to come.

So if you want more information and learn the truth, go and visit your local utility and ask them. Then you will learn who is lying and who is telling the truth about electrical power in the U.S. I cannot say the same for other nations, but some (Japan, France, and Norway as a sample) do accept electrical vehicle as new clients to charge at night
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
You are obvious not an Electrical Engineer nor have the latest information of the utility power reserves. I am an EE and I know the reserves of my local utility PREPA (Puerto Rico Electrical Power Authority). All the utilities supply more electrical energy during the day, due to "televisions, computers, air conditioning and swimming pool pumps in homes", plus the air conditioning, illumination, personal computers, data servers, communication servers, escalators, elevators, ovens, stoves, water heaters, gasoline pumps, air pumps, and other electrical systems in business and commercial sites, and especially in shopping centers and malls. At night, the loads drop considerably and there is a huge surplus of power. The generators never stop turning (never "turned off" at night) and run 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and 365 days a year (except for programmed service downtime and occasional failures.

So all the utilities have enough surplus power to charge millions of electric vehicles every night and actually this does good to them because they are able to bill that surplus. so they offer reduced rates using TOS (Time of Service) costs. The most common EV is the Chevy Volt , and it charges up to 3.3kW per hour and up to 4 hours a night. That is less power than one electric stove top cooking a full meal, or one oven roasting a turkey or a ham (measure them and see for yourself). This phrase is not true:"A modest home draws about 3000 watts of energy at most." They draw much more. If you could, try to imagen or estimate all the electrical power consumed during Thanksgiving Day or Christmas Eve, yet all the utilities can handle that. Our PREPA utility wants EVs to charge, even installing free charger stations, so they can give away their surplus. Only Nissan and BMW sell their BEVs here, with more to come.

So if you want more information and learn the truth, go and visit your local utility and ask them. Then you will learn who is lying and who is telling the truth about electrical power in the U.S. I cannot say the same for other nations, but some (Japan, France, and Norway as a sample) do accept electrical vehicle as new clients to charge at night
I'm not, and I also didn't write the above...

But is it still capable once we approach ICE and EV parity? Does that become Chirstmas (or worse) everyday...and what does the extra demand do to the cost of supply, its going to scale like hydrocarbons, gasoline pricing model simply overlaid on electricity??
 

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My understanding is that utilities are working on "smart" EV charging solutions that can predict how much power an EV needs, and will be able to give the owner a full charge by a set time overnight by dynamically managing charging across the network. That way, the grid is not overloaded at any one time, but everyone gets the charge they need.
 

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We may end up swapping the price of gas for the price of kwatts at some point. But even if they cost the exact same for the same drive, the electric companies can create electricity from sources other than oil. It'd be less likely one resource shortage could effect the price stability. You could be nuclear powered one day.... rolling clean coal the next.... and maybe even solar or wind powered one day, all while driving the same vehicle.
 

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Yeah. That's the beauty of electric. Power can be made from a variety of sources. Unlike gasoline, which can essentially be made only from oil. Sure, you can make synthetic gasoline from the Fischer-Tropsch process, but it's still not nearly as diverse as the potential sources of electric power.
 

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I have heard some interesting R&D going on in the area of hydrogen production, including using enzymes to produce it. The biggest issue currently with hydrogen is most of it is still fossil-fuel derived (i.e. natural gas), and that it's an energy carrier, not an energy source. I'm not saying hydrogen is totally off-the-table in terms of a future fuel, but I don't think it's the panacea a lot of people think it is.
 

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It seems like the real challenge is green energy production. If our electricity is coming form solar, wind, tidal etc... that's when we actually will start to have our problems solved.
 

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It seems like the real challenge is green energy production. If our electricity is coming form solar, wind, tidal etc... that's when we actually will start to have our problems solved.
That is indeed one major area where it can be done, getting their requires the old ways we're trying to get rid of but at least these cleaner ways eventually start a positive effect. Going to be interesting to see how that plays out and even how it's projected to play out.
 

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Those public charging stations, all the charging outlets are of a universal size correct?
Just saw a picture with 3 chargers of varying sizes so I'm curious.

From Left to Right: Mennekes, CHAdeMO and Combo
 

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Those public charging stations, all the charging outlets are of a universal size correct?
Just saw a picture with 3 chargers of varying sizes so I'm curious.

From Left to Right: Mennekes, CHAdeMO and Combo
No. CHAdeMO is proprietary (i.e. not compatible with J1772. The J1772 Combo (CCS) works with J1772 equipped cars with the DC inputs. The J1772 AC (Level 2) is essentially universal in the U.S. with the exception of Tesla. However, Tesla includes a J1772 adapter with all their cars.
 

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Price of that Tesla J1772 cable is crazy, $750. Not sure if that's standard across all dealers and vendors selling it, but even starting at $750 is quite a lot. Down the road that could make room for an aftermarket company to come out with one, although as with any company, Tesla won't recommend it.
 

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Price of that Tesla J1772 cable is crazy, $750. Not sure if that's standard across all dealers and vendors selling it, but even starting at $750 is quite a lot. Down the road that could make room for an aftermarket company to come out with one, although as with any company, Tesla won't recommend it.
According to the Tesla site, the simple plug-to-plug connector is only $95 to buy separately. I was under the impression that they were included in the purchase of any new Tesla.

http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/sae-j1772
 

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Seems like the connector is only necessary outside of the U.S. I'm sure the dealership can throw in a $95 plug if you're going to buy an expensive car from them.
 

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I would guess that the whole charging apparatus would be included with any purchase. maybe incorporated into your monthly payment. i imagine it similar to cellphones. Signup for a plan and we will give you a phone and you can pay for that over time with your monthly bill. Buy a car and we will give you the charger and tack a little onto your payments each month.
 
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