[Like2bike]

Today a woman driving a Jeep Wrangler was taking an EV parking space and I tried to point out her error. The sign said 'For hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles' and she said this is a hybrid. It turns out the gas version is a mild, start-stop hybrid now. I hadn't even thought of this dilemma. Do you think she was wrong to stretch the intent of the sign? Otherwise, anyone can park there since I think most mild hybrids don't have a 'Hybrid' nameplate.

 

[GJETSON]

I can't believe they are even allowed to build ICE that are not, at least, mild hybrids today.

 

[TopJimmy5150]

If it can't plug in it shouldn't be in the spot.

 

[Lin19687]

Yeah, Way over stepping.
Was it a charger or just a Green-Car parking spot?
If just a parking spot, f- her and just let it be. No matter what you say it won't matter.

 

[Fivedoor]

Today a woman driving a Jeep Wrangler was taking an EV parking space and I tried to point out her error. The sign said 'For hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles' and she said this is a hybrid. It turns out the gas version is a mild, start-stop hybrid now. I hadn't even thought of this dilemma. Do you think she was wrong to stretch the intent of the sign? Otherwise, anyone can park there since I think most mild hybrids don't have a 'Hybrid' nameplate.

If it was just a parking spot she is fine, and I have no complaint. With the signage you mentioned the space would be fine for a flex fuel pickup truck.

Keith

 

[Like2bike]

It was just parking, not charging. I realize I'm just asking for abuse when trying to be the EV parking cop .

 

[2019EVLT]

Honestly, I don't see why there should be reserved parking spaces for "alternative energy" vehicles where there is no charger involved. IMHO this just invites resentment from people who drive ICE vehicles and/or don't buy into the benefits of an EV. Regardless, if the sign says "Hybrids and Alternative Fuel", then I'd say she's in the right. If she were parked at a charger it would be a very different story.

On a related note, I was a bit disappointed to learn that, whereas many states offer financial incentives to drive an EV, my state - Alabama - is going to start charging an extra tax in Jan 2020 to anyone who registers an EV. As I understand, the money collected is going partially (25% I think) to building out charging infrastructure in the state, and the remainder will go to the DOT to compensate for the gasoline taxes you aren't paying. It actually makes sense to me.

 

[Like2bike]

I admit it might seem odd to have these parking spaces. They are usually in the second most convenient location after the Handicap spots. I suppose the idea is to reward EV drivers for being green. I also like the idea of prominently displaying EVs to promote them. Probably only people interested in cars really notice though.

 

[redpoint5]

Maybe the signs should say "Parking for x minimum MPG" if they want to reward "greeness". I don't like any special parking except that required to facilitate the handicapped, or other parking that serves specific needs such as charging. You see parking for veterans, school teachers, senior citizens... while I defend the right of businesses to discriminate how they see fit since they own the place, I still find it arbitrary. Just because someone is a veteran, school teacher, senior citizen- doesn't mean they are honorable people, and it comes at the exclusion of anyone else. How about parking for kidney donors, or adoptive parents, or extraordinary unattractive people? -you get my point.

Just looked up this new Wrangler hybrid, and this is what I found:

A 48-volt battery pack works with the motor generator to create:

• a seamless start/stop function;
• a short-duration torque addition to the engine crankshaft in particular driving conditions; and,
• brake energy regeneration to increase efficiency and responsiveness.

When the engine is running, eTorque's motor generator unit delivers 48-volt current to a 430 watt-hour lithium-ion Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC)-Graphite battery. The battery pack includes a 3-kilowatt DC-to-DC converter. This holds the battery's charge and converts 48 volts to 12 volts so that power can be use to power Jeep Wrangler's accessories and charge its conventional 12-volt lead-acid battery.

About the size of a small suitcase, the air-cooled battery pack is mounted to the interior rear wall of Jeep Wrangler's cabin. The battery pack's case is insulated to hush the noise generate by the dual cooling fans. Cooling air is then drawn from the vehicle interior and released through the built-in cabin exhausters.

"

The hybrid returns a combined 2 MPG improvement (22 MPG combined) over the non-hybrid (20 MPG). That sounds weaksauce, but remember that a couple MPG improvement in low efficiency vehicles is much more significant than a couple MPG in a highly efficient vehicle. It's a 10% improvement, meaning it will consume about 10% less fuel over the non-hybrid.

 

[p7wang]

Just read up on Chevy Malibu with Start/Stop, pretty neat! It has two 12v batteries... one in the engine compartment one in the trunk. If you engine compartment 12v runs out of juice, you press a few buttons and wait 5 min, the rear battery would have boosted the front battery enough to start the engine!

 

[martinknutson]

I thought this was interesting: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-iced-ford-mustang-towed-by-police/ Was hoping for a less biased source, but it'll probably be on jalopnik soon. The spots in question don't seem particularly attractive, appearing to be on the upper level of a parking structure.

 

[cwerdna]

It was just parking, not charging. I realize I'm just asking for abuse when trying to be the EV parking cop .

Unfortunately, in CA, all sorts of random vehicles park in them including gross polluters and battering ram of death class SUVs and trucks. There are (AFAIK) no consequences for violators of "clean air vehicle", "low emitting vehicle", hybrid spaces w/no charging station/infrastructure in terms of a ticket, financial penalties, etc., unlike a handicapped spot. So, people keep doing it w/impunity.

If that's all it was, you can't do squat and violators will continue to violate. I wouldn't bother confronting people about it.

Honestly, I don't see why there should be reserved parking spaces for "alternative energy" vehicles where there is no charger involved. IMHO this just invites resentment from people who drive ICE vehicles and/or don't buy into the benefits of an EV. Regardless, if the sign says "Hybrids and Alternative Fuel", then I'd say she's in the right. If she were parked at a charger it would be a very different story.

Years ago, I looked into this to figure what the deal with w/these spaces. It appears to have to do with California's version of title 24 building codes.

Examples:
http://ohp.parks.ca.gov/pages/1054/files/2016-calgreen_complete.pdf - page 43, search for clean air
https://www.dgs.ca.gov/-/media/Divi...hash=8A80694A21C7DB8466E4B6D8F5F9E364A2459542 - page 25 and 26, also search for clean air

If you want to dig further, Google for stuff like this site:ca.gov title 24 low emitting parking spaces.

My work and degree have nothing to do w/construction, building codes or architecture. However, I know a tiny bit about title 24 due to having taken a seminar on energy efficiency in (commercial) building systems.

 

[TexBolt]

These days, I wouldn't (personally) confront any person over a violation of parking etiquette. It's just not worth it. Every day you hear or read about people get beaten, stabbed or shot for saying the wrong thing to some random sociopath.

 

[Packard V8]

I’m regularly having hybrid owners tell me, “Well, electrics just aren’t practical yet; that’s why we had to go with hybrid.” Up here, the hybrids we see are mostly the humongous luxury SUVs which have a fifteen mile battery range. (BTW, that’s a number one has to dig deep into the specs for; understandable the manufacturer wants the green cred without the hard work.)

Jack Vines

 

[Mr.D18]

Imagine going anywhere in the U.S. then pulling your EV into a gas station and parking there, go inside buy some stuff to drink, hang out for a while, then go to your car in an hour, or maybe just pull into a pump, and check your phone for an hour, think anyone would mind? Yup, I bet they would.

 

[Lin19687]

Imagine going anywhere in the U.S. then pulling your EV into a gas station and parking there, go inside buy some stuff to drink, hang out for a while, then go to your car in an hour, or maybe just pull into a pump, and check your phone for an hour, think anyone would mind? Yup, I bet they would.

I so want to do this just to piss off drivers, but feel bad for the guy who is running the station
I have no problem parking behind someone and trying to get the cable to reach to my car (L2) and then walk a little ways to see when they come back. hahahhahaha. Ok I have not had to do this but SOOO wanted to.

 

[redpoint5]

These days, I wouldn't (personally) confront any person over a violation of parking etiquette. It's just not worth it. Every day you hear or read about people get beaten, stabbed or shot for saying the wrong thing to some random sociopath.

... and that's the reason why bad behavior continues on. Most behavior in society is regulated by non-legal means from people readjusting their behavior based on the feedback they get from others. If we want good behavior from those in our communities, we point out when someone sufficiently violates what good behavior is, regardless of what the law says about it. We also show gratitude when people behave well.

I'd much rather I be the one to confront a loose cannon than someone else. I'm willing to accept the consequences, and have the mindset to deal with whatever reaction I get. I'm the type that when I see someone littering, I tell them they are going to pick up their garbage and put it in the trash. I live in the community, and it's my (and everyone else's) environment that's being abused.

 

[sasunde]

Honestly, I don't see why there should be reserved parking spaces for "alternative energy" vehicles where there is no charger involved. IMHO this just invites resentment from people who drive ICE vehicles and/or don't buy into the benefits of an EV. Regardless, if the sign says "Hybrids and Alternative Fuel", then I'd say she's in the right. If she were parked at a charger it would be a very different story.

On a related note, I was a bit disappointed to learn that, whereas many states offer financial incentives to drive an EV, my state - Alabama - is going to start charging an extra tax in Jan 2020 to anyone who registers an EV. As I understand, the money collected is going partially (25% I think) to building out charging infrastructure in the state, and the remainder will go to the DOT to compensate for the gasoline taxes you aren't paying. It actually makes sense to me.

Colorado charges a one-time $75 fee to register an EV vs an ICEV. That's mostly a sop to the "you don't pay gas tax" crowd. In most states, the gas tax only covers about 1/3 of the highway budget - the rest is paid for by sales tax, registration tax, federal and state income tax and property tax. So, people who don't own a car are subsidizing all of the rest of us! But, you can argue that we all benefit (and suffer) from the road network and people pay for all kinds of services they don't use. I pay for stuff I don't use and other people pay for stuff I use but they don't. It all comes out in the wash. I would add that Colorado has just been declared a "serious violator" of air quality standards (ozone, particularly) by the EPA and will have to pay millions in fines because of fumes from ICEV's that my Bolt is not contributing to. So, I don't feel any guilt about paying no gas tax when I drive the EV. When I drive one of the ICEV's I own, I pay the tax.

I am okay, however, with paying extra to build out the charging network - at least for now. Is Alabama actually building some EV chargers with that money? Colorado got $60 M from VW for dieselgate and is spending $10M of that to build out 33 charging stations (with 2 dual 150 kW chargers each) along main travel corridors that don't have existing commercial charging stations, mostly in rural areas. The first stations should open in the late Spring or Summer of 2020. I wish they would spend the whole $60 M on this, but will be using the rest to buy electric buses for transit and schools.

 

[sasunde]

I also agree that there should not be reserved parking for alternative fuel vehicles. It confuses the issue of parking in a charging spot. I see a lot of hybrids parking in charging spots, not charging. In Colorado, it's now a $150 fine plus $64 fee to park in a charging spot while not charging. (You get a 30 minute grace period after your charge is finished.)