[cwerdna]

Hope it's ok to create a new thread about this.

Some folks got notification about this. Not me.
New prices at https://www.evgo.com/pricing2019/.

 

[Vertiformed]

Looks like their prices are going to be closer to EA's.

 

[Enzeder]

Now I'm kinda glad I use ChargePoint. EVgo is WAY more expensive.

My last charge at ChargePoint was for 5 kWh for 15 mins. It was about 10°F.
ChargePoint cost was 29¢/kWh, so $1.45.
Apparently, assuming I'm a member (cheapest rate), for the same session EVgo would have charged 15 mins x 27¢ = $4.05.
And partly due to temp I was getting about 2.6 mi/kWh - so that works out to about 31¢/mile.
As it was, the ChargePoint charge cost me about 11¢/mile.

Unfortunately for me - there are more EVgo stations around.
I guess if you have a vehicle that charges at >60 kWh, and it's not cold, EVgo would be a better deal.

 

[surgeonFWW]

For an ICE car, miles per gallon is very variable. An "average" may not be of much use, but for arguments sake, let's say it is 20 mpg. Add into this the cost of a gallon of gas. Again, it can vary from $2.40/gal. (our current cost) to > $3.00/gal. This puts a double whammy on calculating cost/mile.

Electricity costs vary widely per State/region, and, sometimes, even with time of day (although not here in my corner of WV where all day it is 11 ¢/kWh). For comparison, I am estimating ICE costs to be $0.20/mile ($2.40/gal. / 20mpg), and EV costs to be $0.03/mile (12 ¢/kWh / 4 mi/kWh).

My point is that for 95% of our driving we beat the pants off an ICEV. For that longer trip, which requires DCFC to accomplish efficiently (or sometimes, even at all), should we not be OK to pay "gasoline" prices for our electricity? Admittedly, 31¢/mile is a little above my "happy point". But anywhere near 25¢/mile is OK by me. Heck, we could even pay >50¢/mile and still have less overall annual cost to drive!

 

[Nook]

My point is that for 95% of our driving we beat the pants off an ICEV. For that longer trip, which requires DCFC to accomplish efficiently (or sometimes, even at all), should we not be OK to pay "gasoline" prices for our electricity? Admittedly, 31¢/mile is a little above my "happy point". But anywhere near 25¢/mile is OK by me. Heck, we could even pay >50¢/mile and still have less overall annual cost to drive!

For my Volt, which takes premium, I calculated $.285/kwh was the breakeven. That was against $3.30/gal.

I fully agree that having to pay something is appropriate, especially if you limit it to infrequent usage. You're still WAY better off in the long run.

 

[bro1999]

I'd be really interested in seeing the financials for EVgo (or any high speed charging network provider actually). I seriously doubt any of them are making any money purely from charging transactions due to demand charges.
I'm curious what the electric bill is for that Tesla Supercharger that has 40 stalls in CA (Kettleman city?). The demand charges when that thing is at capacity must be ridiculous!

 

[Dyefrog]

I'd be really interested in seeing the financials for EVgo (or any high speed charging network provider actually). I seriously doubt any of them are making any money purely from charging transactions due to demand charges.
I'm curious what the electric bill is for that Tesla Supercharger that has 40 stalls in CA (Kettleman city?). The demand charges when that thing is at capacity must be ridiculous!

It has solar canopies and power packs so probably minimal.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mega-supercharger-lounge-food-kids-area-kettleman-baker-ca/

 

[BoltFan]

Bottom line ... use Chargepoint if possible. It's a race to the bottom between EA and EVGO when it comes to gouging customers. But at least EVGO has some usable stations ...

Silver lining is this cost model should help people to charge to 80% MAX and then head on down the road; otherwise you'll need to stop by the bank to get a new loan.

 

[gregb]

Bottom line for me, use free hotel, parking garage, airport, or shopping center chargers whenever possible and avoid those prices for the most part. There will be times that EVgo and other providers will be needed and will have to be used. So far, though, I've been able to keep it to a bare minimum.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

Bottom line ... use Chargepoint if possible. It's a race to the bottom between EA and EVGO when it comes to gouging customers. But at least EVGO has some usable stations ...

Silver lining is this cost model should help people to charge to 80% MAX and then head on down the road; otherwise you'll need to stop by the bank to get a new loan.

ChargePoint is also very expensive. The chargers on the West Coast Electric Highway are 10 cents per minute plus 25 cents per kWh. The UCAIR ChargePoint chargers along I-15 are similarly priced. ChargePoint has some budget chargers, but they are starting to be outnumbered by the fairly expensive units.

At this point, EVgo is still the cheapest network overall, but we're still waiting to see what Electrify America's new pricing model will be.

 

[bro1999]

If anyone thinks on the road fast charging should be as cheap as home charging, you've got it all wrong.

 

[GregBrew]

If anyone thinks on the road fast charging should be as cheap as home charging, you've got it all wrong.

Yup. I saw a gasoline analogy yesterday in So. CA. Getting off the freeway, there were two stations near the off-ramp. Both were over $4/gal for 91 octane (what my '11 Volt and '08 S2000 use). As I drove home, the stations near my house (6 miles from the freeway) were just over $3/gal for the same gas.

One pays a heavy premium for convenience, and I'm willing to pay it while occasionally road-tripping.

 

[ga2500ev]

Bottom line for me, use free hotel, parking garage, airport, or shopping center chargers whenever possible and avoid those prices for the most part. There will be times that EVgo and other providers will be needed and will have to be used. So far, though, I've been able to keep it to a bare minimum.

Isn't that an apples and gorillas comparison? Are any of the stations you listed above a DCFC stations? They are all likely L2s. Generally ChargePoint L2s run about $1/hr, while EVGo L2s are $1.50/hr, and the SemaCharges that do charge are about $2/hr. And yes quite a few are free too.

But all are limited to a max of 7.2 kW which can recharge about 30 miles per hour. And no L2 is subject to electricity demand charges. They are lightweights both in terms of charging speed and cost.

Travel speed DCFC (400-1200 MPH recharge speed) are subject to demand charges that are upwards of $9/kW. If they are not battery backed, then each and every one of them are operating at loss because just a single charge during the month at 150 kW would result in a base charge of nearly $1100 for the station for the month before a single kWh of power is charged.

Both of these are yet another reason that I keep calling for a 3rd charging category of medium speed DCFC of 40 kW or less. For example Georgia Power's rate schedule for small business has no extra demand charges for 30 kW max usage or less. But if the demand is above 30 kW for any 15 minute period during the month, a $8.13/kW charge for each kW above 30 kW is added to the base rate. So if the peak demand is 40 kW, then another $81.30 is added to the bill each month. But a 25 kW DCFC attached to its own meter would never be subject to that extra demand charge as the station will never exceed the 30 kW of demand.

I now realize there's a massive disconnect in how folks understand how electricity is billed in residential vs commercial settings. Super fast charging is always going to be massively expensive due to the demand billing structure. I believe we need to promote the idea that slow charging will cost less money.

ga2500ev

 

[NewsCoulomb]

Both of these are yet another reason that I keep calling for a 3rd charging category of medium speed DCFC of 40 kW or less. For example Georgia Power's rate schedule for small business has no extra demand charges for 30 kW max usage or less. But if the demand is above 30 kW for any 15 minute period during the month, a $8.13/kW charge for each kW above 30 kW is added to the base rate. So if the peak demand is 40 kW, then another $81.30 is added to the bill each month. But a 25 kW DCFC attached to its own meter would never be subject to that extra demand charge as the station will never exceed the 30 kW of demand.

I now realize there's a massive disconnect in how folks understand how electricity is billed in residential vs commercial settings. Super fast charging is always going to be massively expensive due to the demand billing structure. I believe we need to promote the idea that slow charging will cost less money.

ga2500ev

EVgo instituted a similar program with their Drive the ARC corridor in California. Each site has two 100 A DCFC (technically 50 kW, but practically 35-40 kW), but they are combined with a grid-tie battery system that only has (if I remember correctly) a 20 kW grid connection.

Those chargers are, in my opinion, especially expensive because my biggest knock against EVgo is that they have the same fee across all their chargers in a state. So a Porsche Taycan can be charging at 350 kW in Baker while paying the same rate per minute as a Bolt EV charging at 35 kW in Colfax.

 

[discodanman45]

I am all for keeping charging at the current rates. If charging at superchargers was the same or cheaper as home prices, we would have a serious problem for taking longer road trips. The occasional high price per kWh for a road trip will be the equivalent or more expensive than using gasoline. That is fine by me since 99% of my charging is done at home at $0.12 per kWh in expensive California. Free charging is also something that I hate. People will use it because it is free and not because they need it. I know we pay more for an EV over an ICE car, but that doesn't make us entitled to save money on fueling our cars. We all have reasons for going for EV's. Mine is because I commute 30,000 miles a year to work in the most polluted region of the US. This is the fact about EV chargers. They are companies to make money. DC fast chargers are expensive to make. To sell energy to the very few EV's on the road, not including Tesla's which have their own network, they have to have high prices. We need to understand that these are companies and not here to save us money.

 

[Cataract2]

I am all for keeping charging at the current rates. If charging at superchargers was the same or cheaper as home prices, we would have a serious problem for taking longer road trips. The occasional high price per kWh for a road trip will be the equivalent or more expensive than using gasoline. That is fine by me since 99% of my charging is done at home at $0.12 per kWh in expensive California. Free charging is also something that I hate. People will use it because it is free and not because they need it. I know we pay more for an EV over an ICE car, but that doesn't make us entitled to save money on fueling our cars. We all have reasons for going for EV's. Mine is because I commute 30,000 miles a year to work in the most polluted region of the US. This is the fact about EV chargers. They are companies to make money. DC fast chargers are expensive to make. To sell energy to the very few EV's on the road, not including Tesla's which have their own network, they have to have high prices. We need to understand that these are companies and not here to save us money.

Since I only view using a DCFC during long distance travel (outside of my Bolt's range) not commuting. I kind of get the pricing. The way I look at it, I am saving tons of $$$ over fuel with my L2 charging off peak at home. So, even if I pay more for charing on a trip, I am still way ahead of where I would be with my 120 miles round trip commute on my old TDI VW.

 

[tomw]

I agree it is hard to see how anyone makes money on DCFC installations. I think they rely on grants, and Tesla prices it into the higher upfront costs of their vehicles. Clearly that will have to change to get fast charging as ubiquitous as gas stations, and lower cost EVs. Maybe something like the gas station model: a quickmart store plus chargers, where much of the money is made selling food and drinks. Like others said, I don't mind paying a bit more for charging on long trips since it is only a small part of my driving. The EA DCFC along I-80 in NV are $1.00 fee plus $0.30/minute. So maybe 1 hour and $19.00 to charge from 20% to 80% SoC, or around $0.13/mile. The EVGO chargers are similarly priced. I don't know of any Chargepoint DCFC in northern NV.

 

[surgeonFWW]

As has been stated previously, most DCFC prices are not determined by the Network, but by the owner. At Columbus' Easton Gateway, the electrons are "free" but that meal at Zoop is "a little pricey". I don't mind because the food is good (the staff is wonderful) and I can watch my EV while eating. I may get $5 of electricity and pay $3 more for food than at other locales. If they start to charge me for the kWh, I won't squawk, especially since this DCFC is the FIRST encountered when traveling north from my WV home! Once here, I can get to any next DCFC on a single charge. Bravo, Easton Gateway!

 

[cwerdna]

Generally ChargePoint L2s run about $1/hr,

For ChargePoint L2, the owner sets the price. The prices are ALL over the map on ChargePoint L2. Not sure I can say that $1/hr is typical for them.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

For ChargePoint L2, the owner sets the price. The prices are ALL over the map on ChargePoint L2. Not sure I can say that $1/hr is typical for them.

Yeah. I've seen a number of different prices for L2 ChargePoint. There are even differences between chargers and locations with the same owner. Our county owns and runs several ChargePoint sites, and one L2 is free, another L2 is $1 an hour, another is $1.60 an hour, and yet another is $1 for a four-hour session. Of course, that is a sampling of what the pricing was as of about six months ago, and I have no idea what it is now.