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Discussion Starter #1
EVgo says "it has opened a new High-Speed Charging Plaza in North Haven, CT. The first of nine scheduled to open in the next year connecting Boston to Washington DC along I-95. There will be multiple fast chargers at each location, so you can fast charge in minutes, not hours."

I do not know yet what is the power of these new chargers, but here is a link to a Twitter picture of the chargers. Not just one charger, but many of them. Looks great. I have charged along I-95 many times, so to me this looks very useful.

https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https://twitter.com/evgonetwork/status/943896979125420032?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email&iid=8ed42e7f6e0e438ebe17097fb566daaf&uid=911285487322705920&nid=244+289476608&t=1+1513898519046&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&sig=0cd8ff19d9331c210f2a2392f348c70bd1a50e12&iid=8ed42e7f6e0e438ebe17097fb566daaf&uid=911285487322705920&nid=244+289476608
 

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Good to see, but be aware this one is along I91, not I95. Boston is 130+ miles from there by taking I91 to I84 to the Mass Pike to I95/Mass 128. It'd be a little out of the way for folks needing to take I95 all the way...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
EVgo at the Junction of I-91 and I-95

Good to see, but be aware this one is along I91, not I95. Boston is 130+ miles from there by taking I91 to I84 to the Mass Pike to I95/Mass 128. It'd be a little out of the way for folks needing to take I95 all the way...
North Haven is close to the junction of I-91 and I-95. Usually, I drive down I-91 to reach I-95 on my way to NYC, so for me its not a big deal that the station is in North Haven. The only caveat is that this route is not exactly the most scenic way to reach NYC.
 

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North Haven is close to the junction of I-91 and I-95. Usually, I drive down I-91 to reach I-95 on my way to NYC, so for me its not a big deal that the station is in North Haven. The only caveat is that this route is not exactly the most scenic way to reach NYC.
Almost certainly the 100 amp max stations.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
charge for 30 minutes, sometimes for 40 minutes.

"so you can fast charge in minutes, not hours."
is not correct. unless your idea of "minutes' is an hour to fully charge :)
I usually charge for 30 minutes, sometimes for 40 minutes. I did once charge my Bolt EV for 56 minutes, but that was only once in about 20 fast chargers during long distance driving of over 3000 miles. You need to actually drive an all-electric car to appreciate the beauty!
 

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"so you can fast charge in minutes, not hours."
is not correct. unless your idea of "minutes' is an hour to fully charge :)
Yes, the charging equation is different for we Bolt owners with large batteries than it is for owners of cars with 24 or 30kWh batteries at which these kinds of pitches are aimed.
 

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The idea of driving relatively fast and only using the lower half of the battery to get the fastest charge time in miles per hour is very counter-intuitive, and it will be awhile until DCFC stations are prolific enough to enable optimal electric travel speeds in many areas of the country.

Tesla guys have done some napkin math for the highway speed optimization problem. More DCFC everywhere would be a welcome change, and stations like this one in Connecticut with many ports would be excellent!

It's also great to see them start rolling out the new 350kw DCFC CCS in Europe now, with any luck the US will catch up in 10-20 years. I kid I kid, we can't even manage to get 80-100kw stations here!
 

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I care more about amenities (like a restaurant) near the DCFC. If I'm bringing the family...we can get an ice cream or a slice of pizza and the 30-60 minutes flies by.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
drive down to about 30-60 miles range - charge up to 80%

The idea of driving relatively fast and only using the lower half of the battery to get the fastest charge time in miles per hour is very counter-intuitive, and it will be awhile until DCFC stations are prolific enough to enable optimal electric travel speeds in many areas of the country.
Actually, for long distance driving, the best approach in a Bolt is to drive down to about 30-60 miles range remaining and charge back up to 80% charge. This gives you up to 150 miles of range between charges. It does not matter how fast or slow you drive. Drive slower, and you don't have to charge for as long; drive faster, and you have charge for longer, so the time difference is not significant if all you are doing is trying to minimize the journey time.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yes, the charging equation is different for we Bolt owners with large batteries than it is for owners of cars with 24 or 30kWh batteries at which these kinds of pitches are aimed.
I am not sure about this comment. A large charging station near i-95/91 seems to me to be primarily for long distance driving. Do hybrid plug-ins need that type of charging? Surely, such short-distance electrics are going to be charging so often that long distance driving full-electric is a bit theoretical? As a "pitch", this idea of charging in minutes is a bit suspect though; I agree with that. We all know how long it takes to charge any of our electric cars level 2, level 3, etc. The pitch implies something faster, higher power, about this particular station - is it real? Is it a higher power station? Don't know yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Fast food nasties

I care more about amenities (like a restaurant) near the DCFC. If I'm bringing the family...we can get an ice cream or a slice of pizza and the 30-60 minutes flies by.
I totally agree with this comment. Historically, amenities along highways are pretty awful fast food places. The great advantage of many DC fast charging stations is that they are often located in places with interesting restaurants. Of course, you have to drive a little off the highway to find the charging stations. At some point, I suppose, this will change, and charging will be done along highways with the attendant fast food nasties.
 

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Actually, for long distance driving, the best approach in a Bolt is to drive down to about 30-60 miles range remaining and charge back up to 80% charge. This gives you up to 150 miles of range between charges. It does not matter how fast or slow you drive. Drive slower, and you don't have to charge for as long; drive faster, and you have charge for longer, so the time difference is not significant if all you are doing is trying to minimize the journey time.
This link you posted on the 1st doesn't agree with this statement, have you found it to be inaccurate?

This is the image the author used to demonstrate the total time vs. road speed, he chose to limit himself to the 2nd step down at ~65% to keep charging miles per hour high.

 

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Note that the graph shows theoretical (i.e., not necessarily real-world) info. What I mean by that is it depends a LOT on the fast charge stations available along your route. If your next DCFC stations are 180 miles away, you are probably not going to drive at 75 mph, since you might run out of electricity before arriving. Conversely, if you have DCFCs every 30-50 miles (or even closer together, as they are around SF), you might choose to drive at 80 mph (and risk that ticket ;) ).

When DCFC spots are 100+ miles apart, you don't have much choice as to locations for charging - especially if the units are single-plug.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Charging time, speed, and charged %

This link you posted on the 1st doesn't agree with this statement, have you found it to be inaccurate?
Yes, of course above 75 mph it starts to make a difference. However, I tend to drive at about 74 anyway. I always charge to 80% of full charge, if I can, and start as low as possible of the range left. If you start at 50 miles range left, you are charging the battery about 65% more to wind up at 80% charge. Maybe that is what Tony Williams meant in the legend to his graph.

Note that once you are on the road, you are always starting at 80% charge, as Williams indicates in his legend, but on the first leg of your journey you can start with 100% charge after an overnight at level 2. So the first leg is usually a higher number of miles than subsequent legs.

Nevertheless, doing these calculations does show the importance of range. When you have to leave a margin, 50 miles in the above example, and only charge to 80% then the actual range between charges is not the full range of the vehicle. If you could leave a much smaller margin, then the miles between charges could be greater. This could be done in the future when the distance between charging stations becomes closer, so you do not have to save a margin to account for the existing long distances between chargers.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
DC faster chargers need to be closer together

When DCFC spots are 100+ miles apart, you don't have much choice as to locations for charging - especially if the units are single-plug.
I agree with this. Its the most important thing that limits long-distance driving. Its not the charging time, or the speed your drive, but how far apart are the charging stations.
 

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When DCFC spots are 100+ miles apart, you don't have much choice as to locations for charging - especially if the units are single-plug.
..., and it will be awhile until DCFC stations are prolific enough to enable optimal electric travel speeds in many areas of the country.
Definitely agree here, we'll be at the mercy of the lax attitudes on infrastructure for a long time to come here in the US at least.

Yes, of course above 75 mph it starts to make a difference. However, I tend to drive at about 74 anyway. I always charge to 80% of full charge, if I can, and start as low as possible of the range left. If you start at 50 miles range left, you are charging the battery about 65% more to wind up at 80% charge. Maybe that is what Tony Williams meant in the legend to his graph.
It seems like he's pretty clear about not going over 65% state of charge for optimal overall speed in the entire text of the article, its mentioned and explained in detail 5 or 6 times throughout. I'd be very interested in a side-by-side comparison of charging to ~65% vs. 80% in an area like California or the east coast that has a more robust CCS deployment.

Its not the charging time, or the speed your drive, but how far apart are the charging stations.
This is at odds with real world experience in the Tesla camp, which have access to many more fast charging stations, and the article content. I look forward to some real world results for our Bolts over time like Tesla owners have meticulously reported. I bet YouTube will be able to provide some "meatspace" context sooner or later. I assume access to Tony's 75-125 mile ideal CCS spacing for road trips will become available in more locations over time. to test his 65% max state of charge hypothesis.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Chargers cut off at 80% - easy and convenient

For long distance driving, I have virtually always ended up charging to 80%. I have found my journeys have depended on the distance between charging stations, and how long it takes me to enjoy a meal, or visit at whatever place I find myself charging. I seldom found 30 minutes to be sufficient for a break, more like 45 minutes, which was always plenty adequate for an 80% charge. Its true that when I ended up at some place like Dunkin' Donuts 30 minutes was as much as I could stand, but thankfully most places are better than that. For summer driving this means I was starting from a 190-210 mile range after every charge, and usually dropping down to a 50-90 mile range after driving for 2-3 hours. At the end of the day, I usually pushed it to 15-30 mile range remaining - heading for a hotel with a level 2 charger.

This thought that you can parse the difference between a 65% charge and an 80% charge in order to maximize time and/or distance is just too clumsy. The chargers at places like EVgo tend to cut off at 80% and that is good enough for me. Its easy. I don't have to think about it, and I just enjoy the journey. I plug in, go for a meal, come back, unplug and go.

I have driven over 3000 miles long distance. The above is how I did it. It was easy, pleasant, and there were no problems on the way. The only caveats are to avoid slow DC fast chargers (ouch), such as those at Chevy dealerships, and do planning for the charging stops, including a backup plan for each stop.

Of course, if you are a long-distance maven. you may want to cover over 450 miles in a day, and you may want to parse out all these theoretical things, but then its going to take more planning than I am prepared to do. I believe that once there are more charging stops available, 600 miles will be possible using my type of planning, but it is not possible right now.
 

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I seldom found 30 minutes to be sufficient for a break, more like 45 minutes, which was always plenty adequate for an 80% charge. Its true that when I ended up at some place like Dunkin' Donuts 30 minutes was as much as I could stand, but thankfully most places are better than that.
Just keep a book in the car that you can bring along to read. It's amazing how fast the time passes when you're so engaged.
 

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The fact that CCS chargers are Few and Far between makes ANY STOP a Must and charge as Full as you can get.
This is for Long Distance driving.

Some of you forget that not ALL chargers are 100% working and you never know when YOU will be the 1st person it stops working for.

So my Theory is to charge When you can, Full if you can so you don't end up dead on the road.
UNLESS you are in CA where they have a ton of chargers ??
 
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