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GM like any of the other big autos design their products and tool their factories in order to sell out their production capacity. High capacity utilization is prerequisite to staying in business. (Tesla has been an exception, so far). This means they must produce WHAT CONSUMERS WANT.

GM has just as much ability (if not greater ability) than anyone else to produce and sell zero-tailpipe emissions stuff. You name it: hydrogen, electric, hybrid, solar, whatever.

Concerned scientists just need to convince the public to quit demanding gas pickup trucks and SUVs. It’s pointless to piss and moan about the manufacturers as long as a capitalistic and free market remains in place.
 

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GM like any of the other big autos design their products and tool their factories in order to sell out their production capacity. High capacity utilization is prerequisite to staying in business. (Tesla has been an exception, so far). This means they must produce WHAT CONSUMERS WANT.

GM has just as much ability (if not greater ability) than anyone else to produce and sell zero-tailpipe emissions stuff. You name it: hydrogen, electric, hybrid, solar, whatever.

Concerned scientists just need to convince the public to quit demanding gas pickup trucks and SUVs. It’s pointless to piss and moan about the manufacturers as long as a capitalistic and free market remains in place.
I agree with everything you said, except the last line. It isn't pointless. You can't tell people that they are ignorant, fat, and lazy and get elected. You can either blame our problems on the gumint, or the filthy corporations. This time around it was the gumint's turn to be the bad guy.
 

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GM like any of the other big autos design their products and tool their factories in order to sell out their production capacity. High capacity utilization is prerequisite to staying in business. (Tesla has been an exception, so far). This means they must produce WHAT CONSUMERS WANT.

GM has just as much ability (if not greater ability) than anyone else to produce and sell zero-tailpipe emissions stuff. You name it: hydrogen, electric, hybrid, solar, whatever.

Concerned scientists just need to convince the public to quit demanding gas pickup trucks and SUVs. It’s pointless to piss and moan about the manufacturers as long as a capitalistic and free market remains in place.

Sorry, I don't buy this theory. GM constantly shapes what consumers want by their relentless advertising. They advertise only certain types of cars. And they chose to make EVs that are not very desirable to mass consumers (and then limit their production), so that they don't cut too much into the sales of their ICE cars. Why couldn't they make an electric minivan, or an electric SUV? Sure, they have plans for 20+ models, but those plans are always 3-4 years away.
 

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Sorry, I don't buy this theory. GM constantly shapes what consumers want by their relentless advertising. They advertise only certain types of cars. And they chose to make EVs that are not very desirable to mass consumers (and then limit their production), so that they don't cut too much into the sales of their ICE cars. Why couldn't they make an electric minivan, or an electric SUV? Sure, they have plans for 20+ models, but those plans are always 3-4 years away.
It is true that corporations are very good at manipulating people. So are politicians, and preachers. Corporations steer people towards the products that are most profitable. GM doesn't make electric minivans or SUVs because they haven't figured out how to make money on small hatchbacks yet, and anything larger, and less efficient just exacerbated the problem. Tesla is making expensive status symbols, and claiming there will be a huge market for their "affordable" small car someday. My biggest fear is that they will actually figure out how to produce the Model 3 in volume, and the whole world will get to see the actual demand for small, stripped down, $36K EVs. I am very skeptical that the market for small electric cars will be any bigger than the market for small ICE cars.
 

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GM delivered the goods and I bought. Pretty satisfied. No other car company on the planet could do it even thought they all talk about it. If that's failing I'll take it. Thank you GM for being a failure. I finally have an electric car I could afford and I can actually use.

These concerned scientists need to give the failing grade to the American consumer. They should use their collective brain power to figure out a way to get the American consumer to demand electric vehicles. Good luck with that. The American consumer wants what they want and doesn't really care at all about bigger picture problems, or what their purchasing decisions might mean long term.
 

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Sorry, I don't buy this theory. GM constantly shapes what consumers want by their relentless advertising. They advertise only certain types of cars. And they chose to make EVs that are not very desirable to mass consumers (and then limit their production), so that they don't cut too much into the sales of their ICE cars. Why couldn't they make an electric minivan, or an electric SUV? Sure, they have plans for 20+ models, but those plans are always 3-4 years away.
Nah, GM and the others advertise current product in order to sell out existing production capacity. Cars take at least 2-3 years to tool from concept to production, trucks 3-5 years. They've got to know well in advance what'll sell in quantity.

As mentioned, Cheetos and his goon squad will impact progress as well. It's okay to keep making lots of SUV's and pickups using USA steel and USA aluminum. Congratulations.
 

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It is true that corporations are very good at manipulating people. So are politicians, and preachers. Corporations steer people towards the products that are most profitable. GM doesn't make electric minivans or SUVs because they haven't figured out how to make money on small hatchbacks yet, and anything larger, and less efficient just exacerbated the problem. Tesla is making expensive status symbols, and claiming there will be a huge market for their "affordable" small car someday. My biggest fear is that they will actually figure out how to produce the Model 3 in volume, and the whole world will get to see the actual demand for small, stripped down, $36K EVs. I am very skeptical that the market for small electric cars will be any bigger than the market for small ICE cars.
GM and other U.S. automakers are making mostly SUVs and trucks because there is a 25% tarrif on imported SUVs, and they can charge a premium for them. On sedan cars, there is no tarrif, and their profit margins are much lower. So their marketing for years emphasised SUVs and trucks.

They don't want to make electric SUVs and trucks because every electric SUV and truck is one less ICE SUV and truck that they will sell.
 

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Sorry, I don't buy this theory. GM constantly shapes what consumers want by their relentless advertising. They advertise only certain types of cars. And they chose to make EVs that are not very desirable to mass consumers (and then limit their production), so that they don't cut too much into the sales of their ICE cars. Why couldn't they make an electric minivan, or an electric SUV? Sure, they have plans for 20+ models, but those plans are always 3-4 years away.
How well did GM's advertising work to persuade you to buy a pickup truck? How about a big SUV? There is way too much value placed on advertising. It really isn't as powerful as many believe it is. The bottom line is, people buy the vehicle that works for them. All advertising does is make the consumer aware of an offering that may, or may not work for them. There is no secret mind control.
 

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They don't want to make electric SUVs and trucks because every electric SUV and truck is one less ICE SUV and truck that they will sell.
Why would they care if it's electric powered, or gasoline powered? A sale is a sale and profit is profit. I think there is more to this puzzle. It all comes back to the consumer.
 

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DaV8or said:
How well did GM's advertising work to persuade you to buy a pickup truck? How about a big SUV? There is way too much value placed on advertising. It really isn't as powerful as many believe it is. The bottom line is, people buy the vehicle that works for them. All advertising does is make the consumer aware of an offering that may, or may not work for them. There is no secret mind control.
Great post. Thank you.
 

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How well did GM's advertising work to persuade you to buy a pickup truck? How about a big SUV? There is way too much value placed on advertising. It really isn't as powerful as many believe it is. The bottom line is, people buy the vehicle that works for them. All advertising does is make the consumer aware of an offering that may, or may not work for them. There is no secret mind control.
There are pretty distinct differences between the products that people buy, based on marketing. Sure, not everyone will buy a pickup truck. But in the U.S., pickup trucks are like 30% of the market, while in other similar markets, they are 10%.
 

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Why would they care if it's electric powered, or gasoline powered? A sale is a sale and profit is profit. I think there is more to this puzzle. It all comes back to the consumer.
Because they already invested (factories, design) in the ICE car. You are proposing that they double their investment, but have the same number of sales. Doesn't seem very appealing from their point of view.

This is the same reason why Blockbuster Video continued to rent tapes and DVDs in-store, and didn't want to invest into mail rentals or digital rentals. From their point of view, mail/digital rentals would canibalize their existing sales, and would devalue their main assets (stores). They only did it when it became obvious that the mail/digital competition was winning, and at that point it was too late. Same thing is going to happen to Big 3.
 

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Consumers already ***** about a $40k sticker on a 3500lbs. compact car with a 60kw battery pack.. wait until they see the sticker price on a big 7000lbs. pickup truck that needs a 120kW pack. And can you really blame them for whining about the $40k when you can get a good gas car for less than half that? And remember GM loses money on every Bolt. You know what, does ANYBODY even make a profit on an EV yet?

Oil is an amazing energy source. Also happens to be an amazingly compact lightweight energy storage medium. 2 in 1! Not even getting into existing infrastructure, don't want to drone on about that. A 2gallon 12 pound jug you can carry easily in your hand will propel a large vehicle 50 miles or more. You can refill your jug in a minute. Wait no, 30 seconds actually. Like seriously its really amazing if you aren't blinded in to seeing only one side of the coin. Having access to it has been great for us humans.

What were we talking about again? Oh yeah GM.
 

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They don't want to make electric SUVs and trucks because every electric SUV and truck is one less ICE SUV and truck that they will sell.
If an EV truck were profitable, someone would be making them.

Only the first 16 kWh of battery receives the federal tax credit, and anything above that amount is unsubsidized. The larger the battery, the less subsidized it is.

Tesla makes batteries that cost about $190 per kWh. That means a truck with a 120 kWh battery would cost $23,000. That's a lot of money for a slowly refueled gas tank. Then that gas tank would weigh close to 1700 pounds, which is weight that counts against the payload and towing rating.

I do tend to think a hybrid drivetrain with a relatively small 16 kWh battery might make financial sense for a truck, but we're a ways out from a full on EV penciling out favorably.

There is way too much value placed on advertising. It really isn't as powerful as many believe it is. The bottom line is, people buy the vehicle that works for them. All advertising does is make the consumer aware of an offering that may, or may not work for them. There is no secret mind control.
These extreme viewpoints about advertising seem odd. It's more likely that demand is a 2 way street where consumers influence what products are made, and advertisements influence what products consumers demand. It's quite obvious that advertising is an effective strategy at manipulating purchasing decisions, otherwise it wouldn't be a $200,000,000,000 industry in the US. Heck, it's even proven that simply placing products at eye level make them more likely to be purchased than at other levels, which is a dead simple advertising strategy.

Some people are more susceptible to being influenced by certain advertising strategies than others. I'm among the least influenced, but still not immune, and I can surely see why others would be influenced. While a "just the facts" strategy works best to market a product to me, it's quite clear that eliciting emotion is most effective, as commercials are rarely informative.
 
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