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EV tech seems to be one of those areas where if you wait, you might be rewarded, but you run the risk of falling so far behind that it doesn't matter.

Companies like Ford might be hitting that sweet spot: maintaining popular, high-margin vehicles like their F-150 and only getting into EVs when it is actually profitable to do so. GM is actually not in that bad of a situation either, where they benefit from the free cash necessary to buy into any breaking technology (such as solid-state or semi-solid-state batteries).

I guess we'll have to see what the future brings. Exciting times.
 

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Ford has a huge lead in domestic sales of hybrids and PHEVs, while GM only has the Volt tech as a PHEV. Bolt EV sales are still low, but growing. Ford will bring six new EVs, both PHEV and BEVs for 2020. So they are the big investors over GM and Tesla now. The PHEV F-150 will be a huge success!
 

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EV tech seems to be one of those areas where if you wait, you might be rewarded, but you run the risk of falling so far behind that it doesn't matter.

Companies like Ford might be hitting that sweet spot: maintaining popular, high-margin vehicles like their F-150 and only getting into EVs when it is actually profitable to do so. GM is actually not in that bad of a situation either, where they benefit from the free cash necessary to buy into any breaking technology (such as solid-state or semi-solid-state batteries).

I guess we'll have to see what the future brings. Exciting times.
Excellent post. Trying to predict the future's difficult, but if you wait JUST long enough...
 

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Solid state batteries will be a game changer. I hope when they become more mainstream GM offers replacement (higher capacity) batteries for the Bolt. Would be awesome in a few years to be able to buy a battery that increases range significantly.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Solid state batteries will be a game changer. I hope when they become more mainstream GM offers replacement (higher capacity) batteries for the Bolt. Would be awesome in a few years to be able to buy a battery that increases range significantly.
Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the business model. It certainly seems to not be the car maker model. I have a little Miev that I would love to drop a new system into. Then I have my Bolt, a very expensive investment, which will lose almost all its value if solid state or other methods take over. And I suspect that there will be many Bolts on used car lots for sale for local type work. But, I believe more strongly that GM, Tesla, Ford, et al, will just expect us to BUY the new format in the form of a brand new car. And...do that each and every time a change is made.
 

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...But, I believe more strongly that GM, Tesla, Ford, et al, will just expect us to BUY the new format in the form of a brand new car. And...do that each and every time a change is made.
Why not? As a society we've demonstrated an unflagging desire to chase the latest technology, no matter the cost, for most of the last 30 years. Why do you think there are so many used Teslas for sale on their web site. Lease returns, followed by another lease on the latest technology.
 

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If you are waiting and expecting for a better technology to advance to make an EV, your business model will bankrupt the company. Solid state batteries are not ready for EV's and may not be ready for another 10 years. Tesla is investing in the technology and will be ready for it IF it is ever ready to be used. What Ford is saying here is that we don't want to make EV's. Plain and simple.
 

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If you are waiting and expecting for a better technology to advance to make an EV, your business model will bankrupt the company. Solid state batteries are not ready for EV's and may not be ready for another 10 years. Tesla is investing in the technology and will be ready for it IF it is ever ready to be used. What Ford is saying here is that we don't want to make EV's. Plain and simple.
Another theory is that Ford is attempting to stall the exponential growth of EV's by instilling a wait and see attitude from those sitting on the sidelines about to jump in. Every day they can prolong the inevitable is another day of solvency.
 

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Another theory is that Ford is attempting to stall the exponential growth of EV's by instilling a wait and see attitude from those sitting on the sidelines about to jump in. Every day they can prolong the inevitable is another day of solvency.
Ford has a large pool of repeat customers that ignore climate change and are faithful to the F150. Unfortunately, this will keep them afloat for a decade or so. I have a neighbor that has solar panels, but they refuse to drive an EV because they associate an EV with being a climate change advocate. Their hatred for EV's stem from their far right political orientation. I am not putting all conservatives into this category, but it is prevalent, especially in my pick-up truck community. She was talking about getting a new truck or SUV and asked her that she should consider an EV. Her first reaction response was "I don't believe in that" which she meant man-made climate change and linked it to an EV. She also said she likes to camp and she couldn't charge. I then told her that all the camping places she goes has destination chargers which she could use. She then said, "Well I go to Vegas a lot and can't wait 30 minutes to charge." I then asked her when she went to Vegas last and she said about 5 years ago. For her an EV is a vehicle that supports the viewpoint of climate change and in her mind she would be a hypocrite to her stance if she bought one. She also has a SUV with a 25 gallon tank that gets about 375 miles. That costs $100 right now in my area. I told her with the EV rates in California that she could travel about 3000 miles for $100. But that 30 minute charge going to Vegas every 5 years is a PITA I guess...
 

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Another theory is that Ford is attempting to stall the exponential growth of EV's by instilling a wait and see attitude from those sitting on the sidelines about to jump in. Every day they can prolong the inevitable is another day of solvency.

Do note that Ford was the one major US automaker that didn't beg for, nor receive, a bailout during the '08 economic collapse.
 

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Discodanman has run smack into the intentionally ignorant climate denier. It's very frustrating, and why I've given up on our ability to meaningfully address climate change. The worst thing is when you make rational arguments, and they say, "I just don't believe it." Drives me nuts...
 

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Seeing eye to eye usually requires agreement on the basic facts.

This is confusing because there's misinformation on both sides of climate change. Heck, I was just talking about how harmful a certain supposed "green" website is due to their made up facts. It gives climate change deniers fuel to dismiss legitimate facts. If they see some evidence of so-called environmentalists fabricating the truth, they are likely to say it's all made up. That website should get no activity, and yet it's among the most referenced. It undermines real scientific evidence by creating a green cult.
 

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Do note that Ford was the one major US automaker that didn't beg for, nor receive, a bailout during the '08 economic collapse.
Well you are technically correct that it wasn't a bailout, but it was a government loan that they still haven't repaid nor held up their end of the agreement.

"The Obama administration’s plans of having a million electric cars on the road by 2015 were being funneled through Ford and two other companies (Nissan and Tesla),"

They did not need the bailout as they had already taken measures to ride out the recession that GM and Chrysler had either missed or ignored, as you pointed out. But, bankruptcy was just around the corner.

"If we are talking about Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) money, then yes, Ford did not take any money from the TARP fund. Did they get bailout money from other sources in the government? Yes they did… and a lot of it"

https://www.chevyhardcore.com/news/editorial-did-ford-take-bailout-money-too-yes-they-did/
 

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The thing that really pisses me off about global warming, as they used to call it, is that no matter if you're a believer, a denier, a skeptic, a pagan, a buddhist, whatever, the bottom line is that we've just got this one friggin' planet, and taking care of it should be a no-brainer. Don't litter, use a little less fossil fuel, don't use too much roundup in your yard, etc., etc., etc!
If I think climate change is B.S. and my neighbor thinks all the polar bears are dying, it doesn't really matter, so long as we both decide to do something, anything, about making the world a better place to live in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Why not? As a society we've demonstrated an unflagging desire to chase the latest technology, no matter the cost, for most of the last 30 years. Why do you think there are so many used Teslas for sale on their web site. Lease returns, followed by another lease on the latest technology.
My comment was to explain to those who expect retrofits and easy change of electric potential that it does NOT happen in our society. I was indicating it matter of factly. You are preaching to the choir.
 

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So, Ford has invested a few million in a promising batery startup.

The author presents this as some sort of technological breakthrough, with Ford at the forefront.

Another breathless article about the latest claimed EV battery breakthrough, which, as usual, is unsupported by any evidence that a battery breakthrough has actually been achieved.

Solid state battery technology is coming, maybe from the company touted in this article, maybe from any one of the many, many companies working on solid state battery development. There’s billions at stake for any company that can deliver.

I wish Ford and Solid Power luck, glad they’re in the hunt.
 

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They already have a head start because Solid Power already has its first fully automated, roll-to-roll production facility in the works. It should be up and running before you know it, as in sometime before the end of June.
Generally one doesn't create fully automated roll-to-roll production machinery without a solid plan to build from.
 
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