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I got my 2019 LT 2 weeks ago today. I love it. Driving in "L" is the way to go for sure.



I have not yet paid a penny for electricity. There is a free Level 2 charging station 4 blocks away, and a free Level 3 that is 5 minutes away -- and that one runs off a solar array. I'm going to see how long I can go before plugging it in at home, or anywhere else where I have to pay. 4xx miles so far.



My preference would be never to charge off other than solar, but I'm not quite there yet.
 

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The point not seen here is that for a higher initial cost, the long term cost is much lesser. Many laypersons will only buy a car because it is initially "cheaper' (especially the imports from Asia) but then spend thousands of dollars a year later in fuel and maintenance such as oil changes. They don't see ahead these higher cost. So a $45,000 Chevy Bolt EV is "too expensive" for its size, yet you can run it almost for free over ten years!!

The EV community and web sites, such as this one, are doing their job to post the positive reasons for the purchase of EVs instead of ICEVs. Yet we need the EV produces such as GM to do their part, too.

EV acceptance will remain low until GM and the other promote more and publish such advantages in the long term of operation and ownership.
 

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The point not seen here is that for a higher initial cost, the long term cost is much lesser. Many laypersons will only buy a car because it is initially "cheaper' (especially the imports from Asia) but then spend thousands of dollars a year later in fuel and maintenance such as oil changes. They don't see ahead these higher cost. So a $45,000 Chevy Bolt EV is "too expensive" for its size, yet you can run it almost for free over ten years!!

The EV community and web sites, such as this one, are doing their job to post the positive reasons for the purchase of EVs instead of ICEVs. Yet we need the EV produces such as GM to do their part, too.

EV acceptance will remain low until GM and the other promote more and publish such advantages in the long term of operation and ownership.

I've learned that most people don't look at long-term economy. Light bulbs is a good example. When compact fluorescent bulbs were "in", they were at least twice the purchase price of incandescent. Yet over their expected life, they cost about one-fourth as much. Buyers looked at how much was in their wallet that day, and bought the incandescents. It's about short-term thinking (tactical), rather than long-term planning (strategic).

Solar PV has similar economies. It costs a small fortune today (if you pay cash), yet you'll realize incredible savings in the long term.

BTW, in addition to driving the Bolt, every fixture in my house is LED, and I've got 5kW of solar on the roof.
 

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The point not seen here is that for a higher initial cost, the long term cost is much lesser. Many laypersons will only buy a car because it is initially "cheaper' (especially the imports from Asia) but then spend thousands of dollars a year later in fuel and maintenance such as oil changes.
In my experience there seems to be a subset of people for whom the only relevant financial consideration is "can I afford the monthly payments". They seem to put no effort into looking at the big picture. I suspect that it's people who think this way who end up on TV shows like "Till debt do us part".
 

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In my experience there seems to be a subset of people for whom the only relevant financial consideration is "can I afford the monthly payments". They seem to put no effort into looking at the big picture. I suspect that it's people who think this way who end up on TV shows like "Till debt do us part".

This is why the slick salesperson almost always immediately tries to shift the purchase conversation to payments rather than vehicle sticker price. They can hide a terribly noncompetitive purchase price behind 84 monthly payments that seem relatively "affordable".

If you look in the dictionary under "crestfallen", you'll see the face of every car salesperson I've ever dealt with, after I've told them "it'll be a cash purchase". I just took one of the biggest tools out of their toolbox, and put them in it, where they belong.>:)
 

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I've learned that most people don't look at long-term economy. Light bulbs is a good example. When compact fluorescent bulbs were "in", they were at least twice the purchase price of incandescent. Yet over their expected life, they cost about one-fourth as much. Buyers looked at how much was in their wallet that day, and bought the incandescents. It's about short-term thinking (tactical), rather than long-term planning (strategic).

Solar PV has similar economies. It costs a small fortune today (if you pay cash), yet you'll realize incredible savings in the long term.

BTW, in addition to driving the Bolt, every fixture in my house is LED, and I've got 5kW of solar on the roof.
I had this discussion on ecomodder.com...

I ran some quick numbers and found I might be able to pay for my solar in the Oregon valley in about 12 years based on $0.11 / kWh. The thing is, if I had invested that money in the stock market, which has a historical return of 7%, solar will never make financial sense (in the rainy Oregon valley where electricity is cheap).

I've not run the numbers in CA, but I'd certainly run solar in HI or AZ, or any other place with relatively high electricity prices and lots of sunshine.

My point is that if EVs cost more than their ICE counterparts, but have lower ongoing expenses, it still may never pencil out financially. There is opportunity cost by fronting a higher initial purchase price, and that applies even if you finance.

If you really want to save money, you'd buy a used EV, which does pencil out nicely, all things considered.

...but, most people who spend less on a vehicle won't invest the saved money. In which case, who cares what is cheaper or more expensive in the long run. Those people have no interest in planning their financial future. Saving money doesn't matter when you're determined to spend every last cent.
 

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I had this discussion on ecomodder.com...

I ran some quick numbers and found I might be able to pay for my solar in the Oregon valley in about 12 years based on $0.11 / kWh. The thing is, if I had invested that money in the stock market, which has a historical return of 7%, solar will never make financial sense (in the rainy Oregon valley where electricity is cheap).
In Northern California, the return is about 12% per year if you install the proper size solar array. And that doesn't account for increases in utility rates.
 

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If you look in the dictionary under "crestfallen", you'll see the face of every car salesperson I've ever dealt with, after I've told them "it'll be a cash purchase". I just took one of the biggest tools out of their toolbox, and put them in it, where they belong.>:)
Cash purchase used to mean something, now, not much.
Unless the dealership does it's own financing, they don't care whether the check comes from GMF, a bank, or you.
My credit union loan has an effective rate of 1 1/4% on my Bolt. Why would I pay cash when I had that available?
 

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I've learned that most people don't look at long-term economy. Light bulbs is a good example. When compact fluorescent bulbs were "in", they were at least twice the purchase price of incandescent. Yet over their expected life, they cost about one-fourth as much.
I agree with your reasoning however my experience with CFL's has not been good. I've started marking the date of install on them as I find them burning out much sooner than the advertised x,000 hours. Fortunately they have been replaced with LED bulbs and these seem to be more reliable.
 

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I agree with your reasoning however my experience with CFL's has not been good. I've started marking the date of install on them as I find them burning out much sooner than the advertised x,000 hours. Fortunately they have been replaced with LED bulbs and these seem to be more reliable.
I used to work in the CFL lighting business as an Engineer. The hour rating is assuming burning base down, ideal power conditions, and never turning them on and off. Each start ageas a CFL bulb an hour or more. Burn them base up, in a can, 6 months tops. LED Bulbs are far better...
 

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Burn them base up, in a can, 6 months tops. LED Bulbs are far better...
That certainly is my experience. Unfortunately the Marketing Dept leaves that info off of the packaging.
I've not paid attention to which orientation I have problems with but can say the last 3 problem bulbs were either horizontal, base up, or in a can.
I've also discovered a light tap on the base lights it up. This adds maybe 6 mo's to it's life.
 

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My point is that if EVs cost more than their ICE counterparts, but have lower ongoing expenses, it still may never pencil out financially. There is opportunity cost by fronting a higher initial purchase price, and that applies even if you finance.

If you really want to save money, you'd buy a used EV, which does pencil out nicely, all things considered.
Bingo!
I suspect few people actually validate the claims of huge maintenance savings. A new Corolla goes 16,000km on an oil change. $35 to do it in house,(with brand name full synthetic, OEM filters purchased by the case), heck I saw Costco advertising full synthetic for $50 last week.
Our Civics & Corollas go on average,(over the last 20 years), 150,000km on front brakes, & usually only the pads require replacement. The second pad change gets new rotors. Rear drum brakes go lifetime, (350K-400K, if rear discs one change). The Civic that was disposed of last spring was 418,000km, on original rear drum brakes. Total cost over lifetime is only a few hundred dollars/vehicle. Other than tires, a couple of batteries, couple air/cabin filters, (we use the lifetime K & N airfilter, cleaning them around 150,000km), transmission fluid change at 175,000km, & usually one set of belts, almost nothing goes wrong with these cars. All have original air conditioning, including one 1999 MY, (Sienna), & 2000 MY, (Corolla). The Bolt will use up the same number of more expensive tires, & 12V batteries.

Saving appx $3K.year on fuel,(assuming I continue with free Kwh for the next 5 years), my Bolt will break even with a new Civic LX, or Corolla LE at 200,000km.
And that is not counting the 4 years time value of the extra $14K the Bolt cost.
I deliberately purchased a Bolt vs the Tesla 3 because I'm not totally convinced they are a more economical commuter car. Even the environmental savings are not cut & dried, if you consider total footprint over lifetime, including recycling at end of life.
 

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BTW, in addition to driving the Bolt, every fixture in my house is LED, and I've got 5kW of solar on the roof.
OMG we must be twins. 5kW solar (2010 install) and LEDs everywhere here too. (the electric utility company owes me $1300 but can't cut me a check). I do like telling them I have a solar powered car...
Yes, I tell folks that in the context of 10y cost of ownership, the Bolt is a STEAL with the tax credits. W/out them, a good deal but not as sweet.
 

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I used to work in the CFL lighting business as an Engineer. The hour rating is assuming burning base down, ideal power conditions, and never turning them on and off. Each start ageas a CFL bulb an hour or more. Burn them base up, in a can, 6 months tops. LED Bulbs are far better...
Not to mention they start instantly, & common sizes are available here for 50 cents/bulb. They are so cheap to operate I didn't bother replacing the timers on the driveway lights. Reminds of being a kid. Everything in S. Alberta ran on natural gas, including the driveway lights.
The gasman installed them, (they were the same as a naphtha powered Coleman lantern), lit them, & let them burn, 24/7, all year, for a cost of $1/mnth.
 

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My 1st EV was the i-MiEV, USED for $8600, a bit more then I wanted to pay. But it replaced my F-350 Diesel 2006. I saved the truck and used it 4 times to pick up dirt and 2 times in Snow storm. The 'i' paid for itself in the 29 months I had it. Not only in Diesel cost savings but in what I DIDN'T have to pay for in fixings.


It also got me into the Bolt and NOT the Tesla. Why ? I wanted something that could 1/2 replace the truck (which I traded in for Bolt). I can't tell you what I have put in there ! I wouldn't have in a Tesla because I wouldn't want to ruin it ;)


I too use basically Free charging when I can. I do plug in here and there at home and YES I plan/eat/visit places that have Chargers.


Good to know on the LED lights. I am hoping to buy with in the next 8-9 months and this will be one of the 1st things I will do... then L2 plug and Solar ;)
 

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Even if/when you have to charge at home it's still cheaper than gasoline!
So including all fees and charges, my overall electricity rate is 11.2 cents/kWh. If we assume a full charge requites 66 kWh (accounting for charging losses), it costs me $7.39 for a full "tank" of 238 EPA rated miles.
For a 30 MPG car, 238 miles of gas would be 238/30 = 7.93 gallons x $2.82 (current national average regular gallon of gas price) = $22.37.

Charging the Bolt at home is 67% cheaper than buying an equivalent amount of gas for a 30 MPG car.
 

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In Northern California, the return is about 12% per year if you install the proper size solar array. And that doesn't account for increases in utility rates.

Yup. I calculated an 8-9 year payoff for my array. We could have left the cash in a CD for 1.5%, or put it on the roof for 12%...:nerd:


After three years, production is right on target to meet the eight year payoff.
 

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^ worked out the numbers here too Greg, 7.5 year payback on solar... or collect 1% or so in the bank.


Solar (40- 335 watt LG panels) will be installed in the next couple of weeks!
 

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^ worked out the numbers here too Greg, 7.5 year payback on solar... or collect 1% or so in the bank.


Solar (40- 335 watt LG panels) will be installed in the next couple of weeks!
I still struggle with the 7.5 year payback. It's higher in Wisconsin because my state offers no support and the electric company doesn't offer any incentives. I'll stick to my investments for now, and re-visit this annually for 'me.'
 
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