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Discussion Starter #1
Charlos Ghosen was just saying that the problem for EV's isn't that there components are fundamentally more expensive, but that they sell so few of them there are less advantages in terms of scale...

He says Renault-Nissan are working on cutting the cost of the cars, which he says largely comes down to volume, with electric cars currently making up a tiny proportion of the 85m new cars sold globally each year.

“This is a scale problem,” Ghosn says. “The technology fundamentally has nothing expensive. If you come to the basic physics of an electric car, it is not supposed to be more expensive than a combustion engine.” Government subsidies for cars are also key, he says, as is the building of a network of charging points.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/01/are-we-on-the-brink-of-an-electric-car-revolution
 

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I think that companies may benefit from making EVs as though they were regular cars. By that I mean, you don't have to double down on the "electric" aspect of EVs which serves to separate them from mainstream vehicles. Just make nice vehicles that happen to be electric. I think things are starting to do that but not enough to see the two types of vehicles as equal.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think that companies may benefit from making EVs as though they were regular cars. By that I mean, you don't have to double down on the "electric" aspect of EVs which serves to separate them from mainstream vehicles. Just make nice vehicles that happen to be electric. I think things are starting to do that but not enough to see the two types of vehicles as equal.
Yea but you're missing the point. EV's demand different components, that's inherent to them running on electricity. Its a question of demand, which is funny because they need an affordable EV to cover the volume, but they need the volume to make an affordable EV.

They're chasing scale, no one is saying that EV's aren't nice, in fact they're usually more luxurious... Tesla anyone...
 

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Yea but you're missing the point. EV's demand different components, that's inherent to them running on electricity. Its a question of demand, which is funny because they need an affordable EV to cover the volume, but they need the volume to make an affordable EV.

They're chasing scale, no one is saying that EV's aren't nice, in fact they're usually more luxurious... Tesla anyone...
I do get the point thank-you.

All I'm saying is that people will buy the car they like the best whether its an EV or not. Making EVs that people like because they are a nice car and not an EV will help to increase demand.

I do understand that its difficult because you need the demand in order to to make an affordable EV. It's a difficult situation but there will be a break through eventually.
 

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I do get the point thank-you.

All I'm saying is that people will buy the car they like the best whether its an EV or not. Making EVs that people like because they are a nice car and not an EV will help to increase demand.
If you buy a car because you "like it" then you are definitely not a candidate to become an EV driver. Buying an EV is like getting "married": you have to be dedicated and prepared for your decision to use electricity instead of gasoline, and many potential buyers will NOT do that. Yet getting electrical power is as easy as finding a 120 VAC outlet and plugging in, compared to visiting a gas station (sometimes in bad weather) to pump a highly toxic and explosive liquid into your car.

This is one reason why hybrids exist: they are identical in style and design to regular cars, yet provide some economy as they can drive some miles on electricity. So if you buy because you "like how it looks", just get a hybrid. EVs are for those who want to really save money, never burn gas, and protect the environment, mostly in this order. EV buyers will not choose because they "like" its looks. Spark EV owners love their cars because they have more torque and acceleration than normal V8 gas engines (search YouTube for a video with a race bewteen a Spark EV and a 2014 Camaro - the Spark EV wins!), yet many others consider it small and ugly. And the Spark EV is the safest of all minicars!

The Bolt EV may be "ugly" but that will not affect the true BEV buyer. And if you still don't "like" the Bolt, get another car that you "like" and keep burning gasoline.:nerd:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Actually I would argue Ray that the prime motivator of the majority of EV buyers is reduction of expenses. I remember reading an article about the Gerogia incentive ending and one of the common themes was that many EV owners in georgia had done so becuase it was financially lucrative to do so. They didn't care about the technology, the sentiment or the environment, it was all about the monthly nut...
 

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Cost is everything, prices are low enough once again, so much so that folks are buying gas guzzlers. Just wait till the cost goes up again, all in right timing.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I do get the point thank-you.

All I'm saying is that people will buy the car they like the best whether its an EV or not. Making EVs that people like because they are a nice car and not an EV will help to increase demand.

I do understand that its difficult because you need the demand in order to to make an affordable EV. It's a difficult situation but there will be a break through eventually.
styling isn't whats holding EV's back, its unfortunate you think that way. Sure they're not pretty, but if the EV doesn't fit your life ofr you're not prepared to change your life to fit an EV you don't buy one. SIMPLE.

Doesn't matter how nice it is, If I have to wait an hour for a fresh tank of juice, I'm calling no joy, taking my money and going home.
 

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styling isn't whats holding EV's back, its unfortunate you think that way. Sure they're not pretty, but if the EV doesn't fit your life ofr you're not prepared to change your life to fit an EV you don't buy one. SIMPLE.

Doesn't matter how nice it is, If I have to wait an hour for a fresh tank of juice, I'm calling no joy, taking my money and going home.
You should stop denigrating my opinions. You can comment and add to the conversation without saying that everything I say is wrong. You can disagree, but that is different from saying that what I am saying is completely wrong as though you know every reason why EVs are or are not being successful.

People buy or don't buy EVs for varying reasons. For some it may be the styling, for others it may be the range anxiety, and still others may be held back by the price. It is a complex issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
You should stop denigrating my opinions. You can comment and add to the conversation without saying that everything I say is wrong. You can disagree, but that is different from saying that what I am saying is completely wrong as though you know every reason why EVs are or are not being successful.

People buy or don't buy EVs for varying reasons. For some it may be the styling, for others it may be the range anxiety, and still others may be held back by the price. It is a complex issue.
I think its wrong, aren't I entitled to my opinions ;)

The point is EV's don't do anything better then gasoline cars if you want people to convert they need to be a direct replacement for regular cars.
 

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The growing number of regulations around vehicles are pushing things more in favor of EV's and green vehicles overall, so it's slow, but progressing.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The growing number of regulations around vehicles are pushing things more in favor of EV's and green vehicles overall, so it's slow, but progressing.
IMO you don't see mass adoption until recharge time is under 10 minutes, or on par with how long it takes to put gas in your car. Of course what I'm really saying is that once its figured out how to price and sell 'recharging' like they sell refuelling you'll see not only mass adoption but mass support from corporations and government.

Which is another factor I'm curious about as well. We will reach a tipping point where charging will no longer be offered free to users because the user base is much larger.

Is there still so much appetite for an EV then when the expense becomes equal to what they were replacing?

I'm not trying to be condescending, just musing on potential avenues as I see them...
 

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IMO you don't see mass adoption until recharge time is under 10 minutes
If the recharge time is just 30 minutes, it will work. It doesn't have to be the same as gas refueling time.

But the range needs to be 3 or 4 hours of highway driving. The charging stations need to be plenty and you should be able to find an empty one when you need it where you need it.
 

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I know that electricity prices in Ontario are quite high. It depends on gas prices, but it could end up being quite expensive using all that electricity to charge up your car all the time.
 

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I know that electricity prices in Ontario are quite high. It depends on gas prices, but it could end up being quite expensive using all that electricity to charge up your car all the time.
That might also depend on location, i bet the further away you go from the city the cheaper it gets... much like gasoline and diesel.
 

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That might also depend on location, i bet the further away you go from the city the cheaper it gets... much like gasoline and diesel.
Ironically, people in urban centers are probably more likely to want an electric vehicle, but maybe not if electricity prices are really high. They just can't get a break. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If the recharge time is just 30 minutes, it will work. It doesn't have to be the same as gas refueling time.

But the range needs to be 3 or 4 hours of highway driving. The charging stations need to be plenty and you should be able to find an empty one when you need it where you need it.
oh you mean like gas stations?

30 minutes is ridiculous. Whens the last time you looked forward to spending 30 minutes at a gas station? Because lets not kid ourselves recharging stations = refuelling stations. Maybe the magazines are better...

The entire process needs to directly replace the current model in terms of convenience. The reason we still use gasoline in the first place is because its powerful, convenient and transportable. If you want to replace that you need to better it in the ways people value it.

Welcome to the boards BTW!
 

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30 minutes is ridiculous. Whens the last time you looked forward to spending 30 minutes at a gas station? Because lets not kid ourselves recharging stations = refuelling stations. Maybe the magazines are better...
Have you ever looked at the long queues in Costco gas stations ? You are only saving 5 cents are so per gallon ...

The entire process needs to directly replace the current model in terms of convenience. The reason we still use gasoline in the first place is because its powerful, convenient and transportable. If you want to replace that you need to better it in the ways people value it.
You don't need to directly replace the model - because you don't need to go to charging stations to charge all the time - only when traveling long distances. Otherwise you mostly charge at home/work.


When traveling long distance you put your car for charging, grab a bite to eat and the charging is done by then.

Welcome to the boards BTW!
Thx.
 

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Have you ever looked at the long queues in Costco gas stations ? You are only saving 5 cents are so per gallon ...


You don't need to directly replace the model - because you don't need to go to charging stations to charge all the time - only when traveling long distances. Otherwise you mostly charge at home/work.


When traveling long distance you put your car for charging, grab a bite to eat and the charging is done by then.


Thx.
I agree that most people will be charging at work or most likely at home. The real trick will be making the stations frequent enough that if you need to charge there is space available.

Most of the time these stations will be used by people on longer trips (not commuting) and in those cases people may not be opposed to sitting and having a coffee and snack while their car charges. I am imagining the rest stop gas stations on the side of the highway that have a Tim Hortons (surprise I'm Canadian) and Wendy's in them.
 

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Frequent enough in distance but also good charging times will help. Plus as a whole the more charging stations the more folks are likely to get into one.
 
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