Chevy Bolt EV Forum banner

1 - 20 of 72 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Not entirely new info, but may be helpful to some.

GM is NOT putting your $7500 tax credit toward your lease, not even the $6k+ like with the current Volt offer. You get $2500 off the Bolt lease, and GMAC is keeping the other $5k if you're leasing. Sorry!
F'ers.... They don't feel like they need to offer the whole carrot on the Bolt, is what I've been told.

On a 39 month lease (the "sweet spot" financially) with 15k miles/year, it's a 55% residual. 1.2% financing rate. The offer isn't likely to change much if at all through the first quarter of '17 because it's a '17 model, and depreciation won't change until after the first quarter of the year.

I put this out there, because if you want the full $7500, and you want it soon, ink that deal in the next couple of days if you can (i.e., the dealer has your car's invoice and it's on its way), and get it back on your '16 taxes. The extra $5k in your pocket, or paid down toward the financing, might make it worth it. I'll have a buy vs. lease cost comparison $ on my Bolt shortly. If the extra $5k makes it even close, not worrying about mileage might change some purchase decisions. Granted, the market might not be super hot for used EVs in 3 years, but then again, as adoption picks up, it might well be decent, and the battery is likely to be just fine in 3 years.

Not happy that GM would decide to screw the early adopters / Bolt enthusiasts, but not surprised either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
It's a bit hard to follow, but GM is using the other $5k to inflate the residuals on leases, making the monthly payment lower but also making the car - especially the Premier - too expensive to buy when the lease ends. It may be that they will, like Nissan with the Leaf, offer discounts on the residuals for those wanting to purchase the cars. or not. In any case, it isn't the best scenario.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
It's a bit hard to follow, but GM is using the other $5k to inflate the residuals on leases, making the monthly payment lower but also making the car - especially the Premier - too expensive to buy when the lease ends. It may be that they will, like Nissan with the Leaf, offer discounts on the residuals for those wanting to purchase the cars. or not. In any case, it isn't the best scenario.
This. The residual on a 36 month/15k mile 2017 VOLT lease is 48%.
The residual on a BOLT is 58%. Do we really think a BOLT will have a 10% better resale value than a VOLT after 3 years? Honestly, I don't think so. I don't think GM does either. So the only other explanation is that GM is artificially inflating the residual 10 points to make leasing more attractive.

FWIW, that 10% residual boost is worth about $4,300 in lease cash if we assume the residual of a Bolt should be the same as a Volt, 48%. By reducing the lease cash offered and inflating the residual, it actually is better for a person leasing since they don't have to pay taxes on extra lease incentives. If the Bolt had the 48% residual and $4,300 extra in lease incentives, that would equal to $400 in extra tax charged to CA residents, making a lease $10+/month more expensive.

A Bolt with a 48% residual, in line with a Volt, would need about $6,800 in lease incentives to match the current lease numbers.....the Volt's lease incentives are $6,860 currently in CA and other CARB states.

If you are planning on leasing a Bolt and will NOT be buying it at the end of the lease, the lower lease cash/higher residual is actually beneficial to you.

Expect the lease numbers to improve once demand is satisfied and supply increases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Leases are just a mechanism to keep you in perpetual car payments. It's a shell game and surprise, surprise! The house always wins.
I generally agree with this position. There are more variables associated with determining whether you got a good deal when you lease. Unless you spend the time to learn what they are, and your circumstances/ownership history mesh with leasing, it's probably better to buy (and keep for the long term). Some, like bro, are proficient with leasing and know the parameters so they have eyes wide open. The majority will most likely be part of "the house always wins" segment.

One counterargument is the pace of technological changes in cars these days may favor getting out earlier (and leasing), but I think if you hold the car for a long period even this argument loses steam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
Leasing can actually be a better option than buying, and not just for EVs. WE leased a 2010 Prius II in 2010, and the total of payments made and fees, plus the residual, meant that we could have bought the car after the lease ended for virtually the same total price as buying it off the lot. We didn't do that, but we just did with the 2013 Prius PHEV that replaced it. Leasing gives you the time to make sure that you really love and want the car, before you have to buy it. Just make sure when you negotiate the lease that you have a fairly good idea whether or not you plan to buy the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
Not entirely new info, but may be helpful to some.

GM is NOT putting your $7500 tax credit toward your lease, not even the $6k+ like with the current Volt offer. You get $2500 off the Bolt lease, and GMAC is keeping the other $5k if you're leasing. Sorry!
F'ers.... They don't feel like they need to offer the whole carrot on the Bolt, is what I've been told.

On a 39 month lease (the "sweet spot" financially) with 15k miles/year, it's a 55% residual. 1.2% financing rate. The offer isn't likely to change much if at all through the first quarter of '17 because it's a '17 model, and depreciation won't change until after the first quarter of the year.

I put this out there, because if you want the full $7500, and you want it soon, ink that deal in the next couple of days if you can (i.e., the dealer has your car's invoice and it's on its way), and get it back on your '16 taxes. The extra $5k in your pocket, or paid down toward the financing, might make it worth it. I'll have a buy vs. lease cost comparison $ on my Bolt shortly. If the extra $5k makes it even close, not worrying about mileage might change some purchase decisions. Granted, the market might not be super hot for used EVs in 3 years, but then again, as adoption picks up, it might well be decent, and the battery is likely to be just fine in 3 years.

Not happy that GM would decide to screw the early adopters / Bolt enthusiasts, but not surprised either.
If this is true, GM basically has lied about the Bolt being under $30K....I wonder if a class action lawsuit can come of this as that is completely false advertising and I for one will not buy the vehicle of that is the case.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
If this is true, GM basically has lied about the Bolt being under $30K....I wonder if a class action lawsuit can come of this as that is completely false advertising and I for one will not buy the vehicle of that is the case.
wut? You want a $30k Bolt? BUY a base LT. There you go. $30k. This lawsuit talk is just stupid.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,561 Posts
If this is true, GM basically has lied about the Bolt being under $30K....I wonder if a class action lawsuit can come of this as that is completely false advertising and I for one will not buy the vehicle of that is the case.
There is buying and there is leasing. They are not the same even though they may feel the same at times. If you want the full credit, buy the Bolt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
If you lease the car and the residual is too high, just don't buy it at the end of the lease. The turned in cars will pile up at dealers, who will have to sell them for what they are actually worth.

I once leased a new model car (1991 Infiniti Q45) from Infiniti Financial that the residual was set too high. I found out I did not have to turn it in at the same dealer where I leased it. So, I went to a different dealer three months before the lease ended to try to work out a deal where I could buy the car for less than the residual. What they did for me was, cancel the lease three months early without any penalty, if I would buy the car at the residual. As I result, I avoided three lease payments, saving me about what I thought the residual pricing adjustment should have been.

Only a stubborn dealer would refuse to make some accommodation if the true market value of the three year old car was less than the lease residual. And only an over-ethusiastic customer would buy a car at the published residual, knowing the car had a much lower market value
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
With Nissan, the residual was fixed, until recently, by NMAC (their financing company). Now you can do this kind of negotiation at any Nissan dealer. I'm not sure how that works with GMAC leases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
There is buying and there is leasing. They are not the same even though they may feel the same at times. If you want the full credit, buy the Bolt.
Even when buying the full credit is dependent on your income.

I'm sure the dealers get ALL the credit so for them to not pass it on is very disingenuous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
wut? You want a $30k Bolt? BUY a base LT. There you go. $30k. This lawsuit talk is just stupid.
Huh??? Did you even get what I said? I said if GM is holding back the $7500 tax credit and NOT giving you the LT for $30K then it's false advertising. If that is the case then yeah...a lawsuit is definitely justified. You think I'm going to have a bleeding heart for a corporation?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
787 Posts
Even when buying the full credit is dependent on your income.

I'm sure the dealers get ALL the credit so for them to not pass it on is very disingenuous.
The dealers don't take the credit when you lease. It's the leasing company who gets the credit. They are passing this on to you by inflating the residual, and by giving you some capital cost reduction.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
787 Posts
No some people just don't want to be taken for a ride. Those who do, by all means can do ahead and do so.
Some people don't seem to understand how GM is structuring the lease so that the full $7500 credit is reflected in the terms of the lease. Nor do some people understand that GM is not advertising the Bolt LT for $30K. They clearly state that it it starts at $37,495 and after incentives it can drop to $29,995 if you qualify.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
wut? You want a $30k Bolt? BUY a base LT. There you go. $30k. This lawsuit talk is just stupid.
Huh??? Did you even get what I said? I said if GM is holding back the $7500 tax credit and NOT giving you the LT for $30K then it's false advertising. If that is the case then yeah...a lawsuit is definitely justified. You think I'm going to have a bleeding heart for a corporation?
You obviously have zero clue about lease structuring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,526 Posts
Huh??? Did you even get what I said? I said if GM is holding back the $7500 tax credit and NOT giving you the LT for $30K then it's false advertising. If that is the case then yeah...a lawsuit is definitely justified. You think I'm going to have a bleeding heart for a corporation?
GM is advertising the PRICE of the car as $30,000 after the credit. If you don't BUY the car then you are dealing with a lease, which is a different kettle of fish all together. A lease is a financial services arrangement that includes a lot of variables that the financing company can tweak one way or the other. And since you don't own a leased vehicle, you're not entitled to the tax credit in the first place.

You can't call GM a liar for coming up with whatever lease terms they want - you can only choose whether or not they're acceptable to you.
 
1 - 20 of 72 Posts
Top