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Wait, so this is On-Star dependent. Nice, way to turn a feature into something I hate you over GM. It's not a real feature you're giving me if you're going to demand $4,000 over the life of the car for me to use it. It's something you're selling me on my car after the fact. Did not sign up for that arrangement.
When buying a TV set, we should get free programming for life too, right?

I agree with most of us here that OnStar is providing a service that is nice-but-too-expensive to be practical. I will still not be signing up for it for another n-b-t-e so-called feature I can do without.
 

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Well, GM is a software company now, right? Next they'll be offering loot boxes when you plug in. For $5 you might get some free kWh's or maybe some free use of remote start!
 
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When buying a TV set, we should get free programming for life too, right?

I agree with most of us here that OnStar is providing a service that is nice-but-too-expensive to be practical. I will still not be signing up for it for another n-b-t-e so-called feature I can do without.
I never told GM to copy Tesla. I prefer my cars complete and working when sold from the dealership. I do not need nor do I think it's appropriate for cars to maintain a subscription service for anything but actual services for the car such as internet. My ability to operate the car, should be unlocked 100% when leaving the dealership. Having things disabled by software to manipulate me out of more cash is not ok.

So, fine, keep the programming analogy or whatever else, it's just not for me, full stop.
 

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I never told GM to copy Tesla. I prefer my cars complete and working when sold from the dealership. I do not need nor do I think it's appropriate for cars to maintain a subscription service for anything but actual services for the car such as internet. My ability to operate the car, should be unlocked 100% when leaving the dealership. Having things disabled by software to manipulate me out of more cash is not ok.

So, fine, keep the programming analogy or whatever else, it's just not for me, full stop.
I have mixed feelings about this trend, to be honest. Cars, especially EVs, are becoming more dependent on software. In that kind of environment, I do want manufacturers to continue to provide security patches and updates, which implies long term software change capability.

I agree with having a defined and permanent functionality from a hardware perspective, but I also see the argument for ongoing changes and a service structure from a software perspective. The last thing I want is for some exploit to become public, and an entire group of EVs to become effectively bricked (or a platform to distribute malware or launch network attacks) because the manufacturer treated it like a one time hardware sale.
 

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I'm guessing they aren't. It's probably something that happens on the backend and requires the network for the charger to be active when you try to charge. GM knows where your vehicle is if you have OnStar. The charging stations know what your VIN is without P&C. It's probably just correlated and your session starts.
According to this the older Autocharge (or DIN Spec 70121), which is what EVGO was using, uses a MAC address from the car, not the VIN. Plug & Charge uses certificates to validate payment. So it is possible if the Bolt has a fixed MAC address it could work.

 

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I have mixed feelings about this trend, to be honest. Cars, especially EVs, are becoming more dependent on software. In that kind of environment, I do want manufacturers to continue to provide security patches and updates, which implies long term software change capability.

I agree with having a defined and permanent functionality from a hardware perspective, but I also see the argument for ongoing changes and a service structure from a software perspective. The last thing I want is for some exploit to become public, and an entire group of EVs to become effectively bricked (or a platform to distribute malware or launch network attacks) because the manufacturer treated it like a one time hardware sale.
The problem is it's a mirage and nothing is free. Tesla is doing the equivalent of "getting to know you prices" right now. These are the good times. They don't feel so great right now. So if it sucks now and we know, by GM's own mouth, that they expect like $100 / mo. subscriptions in the very near future, I'm just not interested.

I know GM can't pull off being a software company. Big software companies can barely pull off being software companies.

I do however also know it's completely within GM's power to hide door locking, car charge status and anything that software does operate behind a paid subscription. I do know they're already pushing to charge for basic functions of the car.

Yes of course the car is connected and that needs to be paid for but these bulk internet lines cost them like $3 / mo. that they turn around and sell for $20. Especially the non-leading edge (non-5G) lines.

I'm just not going to do it. Don't care what anyone says or what products come out. I, will, ever do it. If it happens with Super Cruise? I may believe this so much I sell it after the free portion ends if it matters to me.

I just, will, not, do, it.

$100 / mo. x 12 = $1,200 x 10 = $12,000 over 10 years. To unlock my doors. I will be old man stubborn on this point.
 

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I sat waiting for an EA charger a week ago. The guy in front of me tried to charge his Rivian and after calls to Rivian and EA the customer service rep at EA just turned on all the chargers. He was kind of mad about it. (I got some free juice)
The guy next to me also was supposed to get plug and charge and it failed too.
 

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Not as bad as South Dakota. ZEF sucks though.
I've only used Zef twice, but it was fine. The Level 2 was free, and for some unknown reason so was the DCFC I used. It's only 50kW, but that hardly matters with the Bolt.
 

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I sat waiting for an EA charger a week ago. The guy in front of me tried to charge his Rivian and after calls to Rivian and EA the customer service rep at EA just turned on all the chargers. He was kind of mad about it. (I got some free juice)
The guy next to me also was supposed to get plug and charge and it failed too.
That's interesting to me. Does anyone own or know how the ID.4 is doing on EA's plug and charge? They had very similar problems up front (hilarious considering, EA=VW)
 

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$100 / mo. x 12 = $1,200 x 10 = $12,000 over 10 years. To unlock my doors. I will be old man stubborn on this point.
Of course it would be totally wrong if it was literally impossible to unlock your doors without a subscription. The fob should never require a paid subscription to use, and same for the buttons on the door handles, or in the car.

If you are talking about paying for an app to unlock the doors, that's different. I spent the first 40 driving years of my driving life, locking and unlocking car doors without an app. It's no big deal.

I currently pay for OnStar on an annual basis, and with a loyalty discount. Both of these things make it cheaper than the monthly rate everyone who criticizes OnStar quotes. Still, I readily admit it's overpriced, although when OnStar responded instantly and called 911 instantly when my wife was T-boned in our Volt by a1996 Buick Roadmaster station wagon, it all of a sudden didn't seem like such a bad deal.

I've used public charge stations three times in the year we've had our Bolt. I would rather pay ala carte for services I'll rarely or never use, than have the cost built into the price of my car. And as @MichBolt said, paying means ongoing support.
 

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Of course it would be totally wrong if it was literally impossible to unlock your doors without a subscription. The fob should never require a paid subscription to use, and same for the buttons on the door handles, or in the car.

If you are talking about paying for an app to unlock the doors, that's different. I spent the first 40 driving years of my driving life, locking and unlocking car doors without an app. It's no big deal.

I've used public charge stations three times in the year we've had our Bolt. I would rather pay ala carte for services I'll rarely or never use, than have the cost built into the price of my car. And as @MichBolt said, paying means ongoing support.
They're looking at how the future will work and getting ahead of it. Just like they replaced your key with $4 in electronics and sold it for $200. Now they're looking at your phone, knowing the FOB is dead and trying to make even more money off of it.

Frankly I may have to move away from traditional OEMs within 5 years if this is really the future. I'll build my own **** cars before I sign on to this slavery.

Edit: This is even worse than the FOB thing, a programmer has to spend 1 afternoon creating a toggle switch from 0 to 1, then it's done. At least for FOBs they still have to spend the $4 / unit.
 

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Now they're looking at your phone, knowing the FOB is dead and trying to make even more money off of it.
We had five years of free app with our Bolt. I don't know what features would stop working next month. But our app stopped working with the newest update a week, or so, ago. I went to check the tire pressure, after having my new tires installed, and it said, "This update doesn't work with your old phone." We got the phones a year after we got the car. Thanks GM.
 

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I never told GM to copy Tesla.
WTH are you talking about? While GM offers extremely limited remote access that is free for a limited time, and getting shorter, Tesla gives you a dizzying amount of app-based controls and are constantly adding new features. When's the last time GM added useful features you never had before for free?

BTW, what you call plug and charge or plug&charge or plug-and-maybe-charge is something Tesla just calls charging that works. There's things to criticize about Tesla, but this is not one of them.
 

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WTH are you talking about? While GM offers extremely limited remote access that is free for a limited time, and getting shorter, Tesla gives you a dizzying amount of app-based controls and are constantly adding new features. When's the last time GM added useful features you never had before for free?

BTW, what you call plug and charge or plug&charge or plug-and-maybe-charge is something Tesla just calls charging that works. There's things to criticize about Tesla, but this is not one of them.
I didn't say they copy them well. But it's definitely the buzz that's tossed around the industry. This new model, us all being beta testers with features rolled out over time. Everyone wants the fabled OTA Tesla updates and GM is going to pretend they can do that.

I don't believe them. So far I've been right.
 

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I've only used Zef twice, but it was fine. The Level 2 was free, and for some unknown reason so was the DCFC I used. It's only 50Kw, but that hardly matters with the Bolt.
The level 2 hasn't been so bad, but I've had a lot of bad experiences with DCFC. App not working. Ridiculous rates (like $0.30/minute + $5). Card reader not working. Super noisy when in operation.
 

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When I last pulled up to an EA station, the app didn't work, so I whipped out my debit card.

Damned debit card number popped up stolen 3 days later, a PITA to change all my accounts.

And then I read here that a LOT of EA CC readers have been hacked. :(

That said, if I pay <$20/mo for Netflix, I have no idea why I would pay 2x that much for the lame offerings of the MyChevy app.
 

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I have had free TV for the last 65 years. And commercial free since 1970. It was over the air all that time. But now, since our 1930s coop utility has run fiber optic cable, we stream it.
My point is that a TV set is absolutely dependent on an input signal that has nothing to do with the company that manufactured the TV (unless we are talking about Sony). A TV will always require broadcasting or cable that has nothing to do with what was paid for the TV.

GM could provide the OnStar service to the original owner without charging for it by adding it to the purchase price, or just include it as a perk to encourage sales, but sooner or later it will be nothing more than a loss to continue giving it away to secondary owners.

I don’t expect GM to provide ongoing services that aren’t in the car’s operating software. And I realize that satellites are expensive to own/operate, so they need to charge for the service. I just don’t think it’s worth what they charge, when a smart phone with a signal can provide the same portion of the service I would be interested in.
 

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...I just don’t think it’s worth what they charge, when a smart phone with a signal can provide the same portion of the service I would be interested in.
That's why I would prefer Android Auto and Apple CarPlay over an auto manufacturer's software (including Tesla, to be honest).
 
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