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Yeah, they had to do something. GM's Bolt sales numbers are starting to be embarrassing. :(
 

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2017 Bolt EV / 2014 Spark EV / 2020 Tesla Model Y
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I'm glad to see there's a national marketing plan to go with it!
 

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Here's an alternate theory: it didn't take them nearly as long as they thought to get production ramped up to meet projected demand, and more importantly, it didn't take as long to get the techs trained to service the Bolts. You can't rollout Bolts to every state if you don't have the necessary service infrastructure in place, because not being able to get your car serviced will kill sales more easily than a lack of cars being available.
 
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^ The Electrek article: all excellent observations. Assuming that their durability and reliability are comparable, the Bolt is a much more practical car for work and daily activities all year round than Tesla S. Even if they sold Tesla S for $40K, the Bolt would still be a better fit and value for an average person because of the versatility of the cargo space, FWD and ease of getting in/out.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
On a slightly orthogonal topic, since the '10 things' article mentioned service and dealers, I believe that auto service maybe a dying industry. It won't happen overnight, but as more and more vehicles become EV and autonomous, the need for a lot of vehicle service disappears. I have not seen much discussion on this, but automation of vehicles puts a lot of jobs in jeopardy which used to be entry level or require 2 year program at a junior college. It's the way of things, but one of the by-products of the EV/Autonomous revolution. Then (or now) it becomes a social challenge as to how we handle the changing economy. Outside the scope of this forum I am guessing, but as I read the folks post on how minimal is the maintenance (at least classical service maintenance, not software upgrades) I can see the handwriting on the wall for these jobs.
 

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Make sure to read the embedded article in that one called [ 10 things I like better than my 2013 Tesla model S]

https://electrek.co/2017/05/25/chevy-bolt-vs-tesla/


#7
is wrong most Teslas these days are AWD with awesome traction control

if you have any doubt as to Tesla's AWD bonafides here is a video of a Tesla P90D dispatching a snowmobile on a frozen lake…the AWD Tesla's are considered some of the best all weather production cars you can buy.

http://www.klikk.no/motor/bil/we-couldnt-believe-our-eyes-2671910

I'll dispute the regen argument as well.
 

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^ The Electrek article: all excellent observations. Assuming that their durability and reliability are comparable, the Bolt is a much more practical car for work and daily activities all year round than Tesla S. Even if they sold Tesla S for $40K, the Bolt would still be a better fit and value for an average person because of the versatility of the cargo space, FWD and ease of getting in/out.
There is a lot to dispute in this statement but you are welcome to your opinion. I'll humbly disagree and cargo space in a model s is vast and that is before considering the model s's frunk - unlike the Bolt the Model S doesn't have any equipment in the front cavity of the car and all the space under the hood is cargo room for carrying stuff kinda like the trunk space in a 911 or Boxster...and virtually all Tesla sales these days are AWD cars with world class traction control for year round awesomeness..

And if you are going to discuss versatility for the average person you have to consider the vast 160kw supercharger network that is still growing, its reliable and the best fast charging infrastructure in the industry right now and makes road tripping with an EV nearly as painless as an ICE car...there are 16 charging stations in Gilroy alone vs 2 EVgo chargers that are often offline and Tesla is building out this infrastructure at a furious pace. Couple that with the existing J-1772 adapter, NEMA 120/240v plug adapters that come with the car's mobile charger, available chademo adapter (and maybe a D.C. Fast adapter in the future) and you have access to virtually all known chargers and electrical outlets anywhere so you can drive this car anywhere with impunity.

https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39?search=supercharger,destination charger,&name=us

I could go on...

The Bolt is really really really good - I know I bought one and love it, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 

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A 40k model s would trounce the Bolt - oh wait it already has with over 400,000 pre orders for the Model 3 - even if only 10% of those orders come to fruition that's 40,000 cars year 1 vs Bolts sales of approximately 7,000 cars so far, and Tesla does no marketing or advertising to speak of so relying on a marketing plan for sales is a bit of a false hope...

But Tesla doesn't need a 40k S to trounce the Bolt, the $90k S is doing just fine outselling the bolt by more than 3 to 1 - selling 25,000 cars a quarter vs. the Bolt's current total of 7k sales across 3 quarter…and Tesla's been doing this for several quarters so this isn't a one time thing - I was at the Factory the other day picking up a new Tesla X w/Friend and I noted a Model S in the delivery area and I checked the VIN - Tesla's vin's are serial numbers and the lower 6 digits are sequential for the most part - #198 ,387 was in the showroom for delivery - wow -just wow - Tesla has sold 250,000 EV's (200,000 S's and I know they are now north of 50,000 X's) in less than 5 years - a number considered foolish and impossible when they started S production in late 2013.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-global-vehicle-sales-rose-69-in-first-quarter-to-25-000-1491163865

But as I've said in this forum many many times there is room for all comers and viva electric cars Tesla does not need to fail for the Bolt to win and vice versa the market is big enough for a lot more players and we need variety! I'm an all EV house hold and loving it with my house and transportation fully covered by solar Production - I'm a net producer on KWH on an annual basis so the whole thing can and does work!
 

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Personally I don't care for sedans. I find their cargo carrying capabilities to be limited. It's much harder getting bulky or odd shaped items in and out of them. The Model 3 could end up being cheaper than a comparably equipped Bolt and I would still opt for the Bolt because I favor the Bolt's hatchback form factor.
 

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Personally I don't care for sedans. I find their cargo carrying capabilities to be limited. It's much harder getting bulky or odd shaped items in and out of them. The Model 3 could end up being cheaper than a comparably equipped Bolt and I would still opt for the Bolt because I favor the Bolt's hatchback form factor.
have you tried getting stuff into and out of a Model S - it has a hatch back and the 2nd row seats fold - it actually has more usable cargo room than the Model X (a point I needle the Tesla forums with when ever I can). The Model S maybe a 4 door sedan, but it has the flexibility of a cross-over - and a vast truck space when you fold the 2nd row down - actually quite vast even with the 2nd row folded up.

http://www.teslarati.com/comparison-model-x-vs-model-s-storage-space/#jp-carousel-20024

I'm not sure how you don't consider the S a hatchback…it's at least as accessible as the Bolt - and has more cargo room - but it's also a bigger car - it's not a sedan in the tranditional sense.
 

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the Tesla Model 3 looks to be more like an traditional sedan with a narrow opening which isn't as functional/flexible as the Bolt or the Model S…

https://electrek.co/2017/04/06/tesla-model-3-photos-show-release-candidates-promised-enlarged-trunk-opening/#jp-carousel-41083
Yeah, that pretty much illustrates my point. While a Model S appears to have better access, it's also twice the price of the Bolt. I can barely justify spending the kind of money I did on the Bolt for what I use to commute to work in. Spending twice that much on a commuter car would not be a conservation I'd want to have with my wife, no matter how nice the car is.
 

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]^ Starting with the end: The Bolt has the potential to become "very good"; it's advanced (in some important areas), but the tag "very good" needs to be earned over a period of time, so there would be a record of real-life performance, reliability, resale value etc .. I'd wait until it's mass produced in the true sense of the word at least.

In my previous post am incorrect in one point (access to the rear cargo space), because in my mind I took Model 3's (rear) trunk and pasted it onto a Model S :) --- as for the frunk, it doesn't hurt to have one, but a few extra inches of length and height in the single-volume cargo space would serve the aforementioned versatility better than an additional compartment.

Regarding the AWD vs FWD vs RWD: when we compare two different vehicles, for the sake of common sense and fairness we should look at most typical (if not the base) versions, not at the top of the range, exotic ones.

Also, not every state in the Union is CA; where I typically travel (mostly the northernmost bit of VA), most of the charging stations are not Tesla superchargers. The fact that Teslas cans use non-Tesl stations as well doesn't diminish the ability of other EV's to travel long distance, where needed. By the way, aren't superchargers something that one should use with caution, because they may "wear out" the battery faster? I really dn't know; just asking.
 

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No issue to date with super charging but only time will tell - Tesla offers the same 8 year unlimited mile warranty that Chevy does on the Bolt. Any issue with fast charging would apply equally to Tesla's or Bolt's - there are some people that are concerned, but to date there is no strong indication of any problems with some Tesla's having over 200,000 miles and supercharged for most of their lives according to the forums…

AWD is the most common configuration of S and X (X is AWD only) produced these days but the sole base model S 75 is RWD, I doubt that takes up the majority of sales - the AWD modes are the 75D, 100D, and the P100D, so it's not only the high end exotics that have AWD. (the D means dual motor front/rear axel and hence are the AWD models).

Looking at VA there are a lot of two station Chademo charger (combo D.C. fast/chademo) and a few Superchargers - with the optional chademo adapter the Tesla can use either the super chargers or the chademo..plans are pretty aggressive for 2017 supercharger expansion with vastly more chargers in dense urban areas to support the model 3 for charging for non homeowners...I'll still argue the supercharger network from Tesla is way more reliable and accessible than the D.C. Fast charger experiences I've had in CA (I'm looking at you EVgo!), most super chargers are set up for 8 or more cars (busy sites have 16 or more) and Tesla works aggressively to keep them functional.

Again this is going to be interesting to watch - even if Tesla only sell 200,000 model 3 it will be a big wake up call to the industry.
 

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https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39?search=supercharger,destination charger,&name=us

for those who have not visited the Tesla Supercharge site the current network is impressive in what it covers - and the 2017 expansion plans are agressive - anyone buying an EV will pay attention to this…the map at the link is interactive and you can drill down to see more details on what is planned - what impresses me is the plan in major urban areas to provide more daily use superchargers as opposed to road-trip only plans.

I've included a screen shot for those that are curious - Red are existing Supercharger locations that are functional today - most are 6 stall or more chargers vs. EVgo's typically 1 or 2 car setup (many are 8 or 10 stall)

Red = existing super charger - free to use for Model S & X users, nominal charge for Model 3 customers
Light Grey = planned new supercharger
Dark Grey = "destination charger" these are typically 40-80 AMP chargers at business/hotels - cost is up to the business, but most are free to use for customers of the business.

and of course you can use any existing J-1772 or Chademo charger (and most DC Fast chargers are EVgo which are both types of connectors)

Chevy has a long long ways to go IMHO.
 

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You gotta love the top comment from The Woz himself:

stevewoz • 17 days ago
I drive both cars and totally agree with your assessment. The Bolt is more convenient to get into and more comfortable for driving (for my wife and I, at least). Our Bolt also sounds better for music. We bought the high-end audio system for both cars. Parking is a breeze with the Bolt. I find Android Auto better for navigation (by a lot) than Apple CarPlay. Using either of those it's hard to get back to your built-in SiriusXM Radio in the Bolt. We had to pay extra for a level 2 charger in our garage for the Bolt. It only comes with a Level 1 (110v) cord and that doesn't charge enough overnight for our in-town needs. Tesla has the charging solution so we prefer it for long road trips. We have taken long road trips in our Bolt, using CCS charging stations. But, as with the early Tesla's, we have to locate charging stations on our route with one app and then enter their addresses in a navigation app to see the distances and plan our trips. Tesla does it all for you. The Tesla Superchargers are simpler and easier to use. With EVGo chargers, they cut out after half an hour. A good car with long range is not a total solution. The charging is a must for those who drive a lot. These days I often comment that the 2 recent technology devices I currently love are my Apple watch and the Chevy Bolt. Oh, I hate confusing UI's and neither car is very satisfactory to me in that regard. And Tesla does have auto-parking and auto-steering and auto dimming back now.
 
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