[Electric Mike]

We are barely seeing EVs get into the mainstream now, and hot on their heels is hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. The latest to be released is the Honda Clarity Fuel Cell, which was just launched in Japan with an impressive 466 mile range.

It's not cheap at a price of 7,660,000 yen, or about $67,445. Honda aims to sell 200 in the model's first year on the market.

In terms of technical specifications, the vehicle tips the scales at a rather hefty 4,166 pounds (1,890 kilograms) and is driven by a 130 kilowatt motor generating 221 pound-feet (300 newton meters) of torque. It comes equipped with a 70 MPa, 141 liter high-pressure hydrogen tank which grants the vehicle with a cruising range of around 466 miles (750 kilometers), as per Honda’s measurement in the JC08 test cycle.

The US-spec 2017 Clarity is expected to exceed 300 miles of range when rated by the EPA. Filling up should only take 3 minutes.

The Clarity will come to Europe and the US before the end of 2016. In California the model is expected to cost $60,000 and will be available with a "targeted" monthly lease of less than $500.

Do you guys think that fuel cell vehicles will catch on? Are they going to supplant EVs in the medium to long term?

http://www.motor1.com/news/61558/honda-clarity-fuel-cell-launched-in-japan-with-466-mile-range

 

[Bazinga]

Not at that price they won't. The Clarity certainly looks nice but not $60,000 nice and they can only market to areas with dense hydrogen fueling stations.

If only they managed to create a 466 mile electric car. I would be all over that.

 

[Roth33d]

That depends on how you see it, someone factoring in the long term impact on their wallet and even the environment will see value in this, it can be considered an investment in comparison to the typical gas burner.

 

[Electric Mike]

I wonder if the prices listed there take into account the government discounts that are on offer to offset the high price.

 

[Raymondjram]

If the Fuel Cell can use methane instead of hydrogen, then I would just install a pipe to the sewer system and get free gas. The smell will be terrible but I could drive for free.

In reality, it is too expensive for something that will keep me tied to the oil profiteers who will also control the hydrogen stations. So, no, thank you! I prefer pure electrics. Put a bigger battery instead of the fuel cell and H2 tanks, and Honda can sell it as a BEV.

I will wait for the Chevy Bolt EV.

 

[volta]

How do you figure that the oil companies will control hydrogen too? And even if they did, is that so bad? Someone has to control it and if the hydrogen isn't as bad for the environment, then are the companies that bad?

 

[Bazinga]

Won't necessarily be the oil companies but a few companies will control Hydrogen production and distribution. At least with electricity I can charge it at home and maybe even install solar panels as a one time payout to charge my future cars instead of continuously paying a few companies for their hydrogen.

Maybe my mind can be changed if hydrogen fueling station density is similar to that of gas and it's dirt cheap to fill a tank, like electric car cheap.

 

[volta]

It would make more sense to have all fuelling services centralized. Why take up so much extra space having hydrogen here, gas there, and electricity over there? That wouldn't be efficient.

 

[Bazinga]

Don't think even the car manufacturers are too optimistic about hydrogen fuel cars if Honda only plans to sell 200 Clarity in a year.

 

[Roth33d]

At this point in the industry it's probably a bit of a risk and Toyota is willing to take the hit if it falls but there's a good chance with their efforts focused on specific markets that they'll have good momentum over the long haul, just might be one of those green options that sit at the bottom of the rest in volume

 

[volta]

Don't think even the car manufacturers are too optimistic about hydrogen fuel cars if Honda only plans to sell 200 Clarity in a year.

This is the first year of sales for a brand new technology. How many electric vehicles were sold the very first year that the technology was on the market?

In addition, EVs or hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are not just a brand new technology, they also require infrastructure in order to be useable. That is a huge barrier to purchase because even if price doesn't stop you, the fact that infrastructure is not widely available will dissuade many potential buyers.

 

[Roth33d]

That's one thing I don't like about hydrogen but then again from what I understand the release markets are very focused on where infrastructure is or at least where it won't be an inconvenience for owners

 

[LightningBolt]

The hydrogen infrastructure is still in its infancy and I don't envy them for that but I do envy their longer range. One day, all electric vehicles may travel just as far as the clarity.

 

[Roth33d]

I see it mainly as a type of vehicle for the city for obvious reasons, and even for just out of the city since that can also work well for those that can justify it and won't find it to be a burden.

 

[Raymondjram]

This is the first year of sales for a brand new technology. How many electric vehicles were sold the very first year that the technology was on the market?

According to history records, the first EVs were sold over 100 years ago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle

And it was preferred by women drivers, because there was no need for hand cranking a gas engine, no smells, no soot to stain their dresses, and few gas stations nearby. New York City had several charging stations which were not as easy to use, but still they did serviced many thousands of EVs. The biggest promoter was Thomas Edison himself, since he developed the first efficient batteries (search for Edison battery) which were safer than lead-acid, and the electricity was supplied by his company, Edison Electric (now part of Consolidated Edison Power or ConEd in NYC).


For total EV sales, you have to search for yourself. Claire Ford had a Detroit Electric car which is still operational, Jay Leno has one in his collection, and the company was revived:
http://detroit-electric-group.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Electric

So we are going "back to the future" with the rebirth of the electric vehicles, and it never was "a brand new technology."

 

[Dyefrog]

As quoted in the 80's, Fuel Cells are the future and always will be. Aside from the price, there are so many things going against hydrogen as an energy source that it's preposterous to even consider it for normal travel. The only advantage it has over EV is range and as those who already drive EV's know, the vast majority of daily driving falls within the current range and the quick charge/supercharger networks are growing daily to mitigate long distance anxiety. I predict a 400 mile EV in the near future which would negate the only advantage it currently has. Think about the advantages the current energy delivery network has in place for EV's. I can charge just about anywhere there's civilization with very little delivery cost or lost efficiency. Whereas hydrogen is either processed on site (as a cost 10x a supercharger) or delivered similar to gas, however there will always be a loss of hydrogen over time due to leaking. Even the hydrogen tank on the Clarity will loose hydrogen over time. It's very difficult to contain the smallest molecule we know. Then there's the extraction process of using massive amounts of electricity to process the hydrogen from NATURAL

 

[Dyefrog]

Cpnt.
GAS. Just store the electricity in the battery in the first place and cut your losses. And where are all these fueling stations as a cost of $2,000,000 each (thank you California). The only reason Toyota and Honda are even screwing around with Hydrogen is it's heavily subsidized like all fossil fuels and it gets them much needed ZEV credits. I give it 5 years and they will be a distant memory and EV's will have put the final nail in the coffin for fuel cells.

 

[Efthrreoh]

This is the first year of sales for a brand new technology. How many electric vehicles were sold the very first year that the technology was on the market?

In addition, EVs or hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are not just a brand new technology, they also require infrastructure in order to be useable. That is a huge barrier to purchase because even if price doesn't stop you, the fact that infrastructure is not widely available will dissuade many potential buyers.

This why EVs will keep more of the market, the recharging station is at your home from the nearest electrical service outlet.

 

[Efthrreoh]

According to history records, the first EVs were sold over 100 years ago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle

And it was preferred by women drivers, because there was no need for hand cranking a gas engine, no smells, no soot to stain their dresses, and few gas stations nearby. New York City had several charging stations which were not as easy to use, but still they did serviced many thousands of EVs. The biggest promoter was Thomas Edison himself, since he developed the first efficient batteries (search for Edison battery) which were safer than lead-acid, and the electricity was supplied by his company, Edison Electric (now part of Consolidated Edison Power or ConEd in NYC).


For total EV sales, you have to search for yourself. Claire Ford had a Detroit Electric car which is still operational, Jay Leno has one in his collection, and the company was revived:
http://detroit-electric-group.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Electric

So we are going "back to the future" with the rebirth of the electric vehicles, and it never was "a brand new technology."

Bravo Sir, bravo, a man who knows his EV history. Well done.

 

[Raymondjram]

Hydrogen is a dangerous fuel. Ask the professionals who supply it to NASA for their space boosters!

Hydrogen is colorless, odorless, and as invisible as oxygen. SInce the H2 tank is pressurized, if it escapes, it absorbs heat quickly to expand. If a customer is unfortunate to breath it at that moment, the cold gas will freeze the mouth, toungue, throat, and bronchal path, killing by asphixiation. Gasoline and natural gas are both toxic but the customer can detect it sooner before the vapors do harm. Not so with cold hydrogen gas!

I have the 2009 Chevrolet Fuel Cell Equinox Owner Manual (purchased at Helm, Inc). The refueling takes several steps, because there are two connections. The first is electrical for the electronic communications between the FC vehicle and the special H2 pump. The second is the H2 gas line. So filling with H2 is worse than filling with gasoline because of the complexity and dangers.

EVen if H2 was free, the travel to that pump, steps to fill up, and the time is never justifiable. Add the limited fuel station locations, and anyone can see that it is never viable for the common layperson to use. Electric charging is already part of our daily routines for the laptop, notebook, smartphone, and other mobile devices that we carry. Just consider a BEV as another "mobile device" but as the ONLY one that carries you!