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Discussion Starter #1
I'd like to hear a little feedback on what people consider optimum range for a BEV? This will likely vary greatly based on driving patterns and intended use.

Our Fit EV is EPA rated at 82 miles and works fantastic as a commuter car, but there are a fair number of trips that is stays in the garage and we take the "gas guzzling" hybrid (43 mpg), particularly in the winter when range is closer to 50 miles.
We take several trips a year where a 200 mile (EPA) EV will do the job nicely (sometimes assuming charging available at/near our destination which is almost always the case, at least here in Oregon).
Once every year or two, we take a trip that is 400 to 600 miles in a day. Do I want to haul around 200 kWh of battery to cover that trip? And pay the weight penalty (along with reduced efficiency) all the rest of the time? Not to mention the $$ it would cost for a pack that size. Weight and cost will undoubtedly continue to drop, but the issue won't go away.

Availability of Fast Charging plays a key role.

In order for us to replace our hybrid with a BEV, it would likely need 200 to 350 miles of highway range. At 200, there would need to be an extensive network of fast charging available (near freeways). And fast charging means just that. 50 kW CCS doesn't cut it (let alone the 24 kW units being placed by BMW/VW). 100 kW would be minimum (the current CCS spec and supported by the upcoming Hyundai IONIQ). The updated (or soon to be) 150 kW CCS spec would be close to ideal.

Right now, the only choice for long distance travel is Tesla, and I refuse to pay that kind of money for a car (the Base Model S - back to 60 kW with 210 mile range - is $66K and climbs rapidly with any options). The Model 3 holds promise but is still years away (at least 2, probably more for real availability).

To sum up, I can't ever see needing more than about 300 miles of range in a BEV, anything more is likely to hold a negative ROI. If fast charging is not available, I can't carry enough battery to make it work (and wouldn't want to).
 

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Thank you for your thoughts.

At this time, I believe a 200 mile range vehicle would suit my needs 99% of the time - except for long trips. A 300 mile range vehicle would additionally allow me to take long trips, but that is infrequent and probably not worth the extra expense/weight. A 150 mile vehicle (such as the 2016 Leaf) would be worth considering as well - but why? - since a 200 mile vehicle at the same price point will be available shortly.

My twice a week commute is 72 miles and was outside the range of my 2013 Leaf during the winter - without charging at work - which was inconvenient (Level 1 plugged in through a window.)

The Leaf's maximum 80 mile range also required some planning for rural trips and did not allow any leeway for unexpected detours - it felt kind of adventurous, but was also inconvenient at times (my wife did not like having to ride with no a/c while already sweating it to see if we would make it home.) I live in a rural area - other than my house, there are no chargers close by.

I have considered (and am still considering) a Tesla S60 - I like the range and love the technology of the vehicle, but, as you said, it is a lot of money - especially for my driving needs. It would also solve the long range trip problem - but we have an relatively new ICE car for that. I'm planning on test driving a Model S before long and I will (hopefully) wait for the Bolt to come out before I make up my mind. (If the Bolt had driver assist - which looks unlikely in the initial model - I would probably not even consider the Tesla - the Model 3 is too far away to even consider at this time.)
 

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Sorry - the 2016 Leaf has 107 mile range - not 150. The 2017 Leaf may offer a 150-200 mile range according to reports.
 

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I also live in a rural area and will be commuting 72 miles each way at least 4 days a week. There aren't any superchargers within 150 miles and only one ChargePoint 220v station (about 10 miles out of the way) on my route. I will have charging at my work and will install a 220v charger there. I think the 200 mile range is the minimum for me taking into account reductions in range during the winter and battery degradation. Maybe the Volt is a more practical purchase for me but I have been driving a BEV ( i used to have a 6 mile commute) and wish to stay with a BEV if possible. The Tesla S is out of my price range and I think I prefer the size and CUV style and usability of the Bolt.
 

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So far, the longest road trip I've taken was around 978 miles but, that was within a span of 3 days with breaks and I rarely make those kinds of long journeys so a 200 mile EV would suit my needs for now. That doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer to have a 300 mile EV just so I won't be cutting it close at any time especially when the battery starts to deteriorate.

On top of further developing the battery capacity, it would be great if the gov't takes an interest in installing high power charging stations at those highway gas stops so we can travel even further even without a 300 mile EV. I took a look at plugshare.com and there really aren't any superchargers outside of the major cities.
 

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That's how they look at it currently, for the most part it's about local travel and some that allow for longer travel and if you map it all out right you can travel pretty far with just recharging as you go without a problem. Tesla has been reported to be installing chargers and superchargers that allow you to travel across the united states by just going to their charging stations.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
... I took a look at plugshare.com and there really aren't any superchargers outside of the major cities.
"Superchargers" are Tesla charging stations, and as far as I know, are ONLY installed outside of major cities. They are located along major freeways and the goal is to put them near other services (food, restrooms, etc).

If you're looking at Bolt compatible fast charging, filter for "CCS DCFC". The West and East coasts of the US are fairly well covered (however many are only 24 kW) and are often along major interstates.

While CHAdeMO is more common today, CCS will likely become the most common standard. Only Nissan and Mitsubishi are currently sticking with CHAdeMO, Hyundai/Kia, Tesla and even Renault (a Nissan "cross sharing partner") have joined the CCS alliance. The driving force is likely the much lower cost to implement CCS (single receptacle instead of 2 separate connectors)

Tesla has been reported to be installing chargers and superchargers that allow you to travel across the united states by just going to their charging stations.
More than "reported to": https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39?search=supercharger&name=us
 

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Too bad other vehicles can't use the Tesla supercharging stations since there's only around 100 high power charging stations in both the U.S and Canada. A lot of ground to cover with a few chargers. I think a 300 mile range would be beneficial until the charging infrastructure has expanded a lot more.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Too bad other vehicles can't use the Tesla supercharging stations since there's only around 100 high power charging stations in both the U.S and Canada. A lot of ground to cover with a few chargers. I think a 300 mile range would be beneficial until the charging infrastructure has expanded a lot more.
Elon has repeatedly stated that other manufacturers can use the Supercharging network - if they "buy=in" and become a financial supporter. The patents are open, but would require some modifications to the vehicle (hardware and software) to charge at the ~120-130 kW rate.

As of March 2016, there were 1784 CHAdeMO DC Quick Chargers in the US. As of Jan 2016, there were 387 CCS stations and 253 Tesla Superchargers.


Although Teslas Superchargers show the smallest number, they offer the best coverage. They charge at a faster rate and have been designed and placed to facilitate long distance travel.


CHAdeMO June 2016

Most of these are 50 kW, but located at dealerships, shopping malls, etc.

CCS June 2016

Chargepoint along with BMW and VW have teamed up to allow travel on the East and west cost corridors - but most often placed 24 KW units.


It is worth noting that the Supercharger locations have multiple bays to charge, whereas the CHAdeMO and CCS usually can charge a single car at a time. Sometimes you'll find 2, but anything more than that is very rare.
 

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Would be nice if Tesla allows individual owners to pay a fee so they can use the chargers. Come out with a special adapter they can use that's compatible with the bolt, leaf, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Would be nice if Tesla allows individual owners to pay a fee so they can use the chargers. Come out with a special adapter they can use that's compatible with the bolt, leaf, etc.
I could definitely get on board with that.
Nice, but unlikely. With the announced CCS implementation on the Bolt, it will be 50 kW, so it would charge at less than half the rate of the current Supercharger implementation. Bolts (and other CCS vehicles) would tie up a charging spot for twice as long.

There are already lines (and valet service) at some of the busy Superchargers, and this is before the Model 3 hits the streets. Yes, Tesla plans to double the network, but in a few years there will tens (or hundreds) of times the number of vehicles that are Supercharger capable. At least Model 3 owners will have to pay for the charging. Model S/X owners tend to think they have already payed for it (they have), so take advantage whenever they can.
 

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Of course I would like to have as much range as possible but we probably won't be seeing that 300+ highway range for a number of years yet. I would like to have an EV with 350 mile range and able to charge up to 100 miles range in 30 minutes with a CCS. This would require development both on the vehicle manufacturer's end and the charging companies.

I think that would be perfect for most of my needs but that's still a ways off. Until that happens, we'll need to calculate and plan our road trips so we never become stranded.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
... able to charge up to 100 miles range in 30 minutes with a CCS. This would require development both on the vehicle manufacturer's end and the charging companies.
Current CCS specs allow for 100 kW charging (soon to be 150 Kw). CHAdeMO is raising their specs to 150 kW.

The Hyundai IONIQ will ship with 100 kW CCS allowing 80% charge in 24 minutes (28 kWh battery and ~110 mile EPA range)

The new LEAF will have a 60 kWh battery and be capable of 150 kW CHAdeMO. This is completely unofficial, but from heard from a couple of sources I consider reliable.

The charging network to provide DCFC at those levels is a completely different ball game.
 

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Hi.

First, to the original question. A BEV with a 200 mile range would be very acceptable to me.

I am getting on in years. I can't drive more than a 100-150 miles before I need a nap.
A 30 minute nap, while charging for 30 minutes works for me.

Second, did someone say the Bolt will allow at most, 50 KW DC fast charging?
This rate of charging might work for me, but won't work for people who are in a hurry.

Third, I am retired and have limited funds. I need to wait for a used BEV that I can afford.
I want to wait for a BEV with 200 mile range that should meet any and all my needs.
I hope to save for a used, 200 mile BEV. My goal is the 2020-2025 time-frame.
I believe the DC charging infrastructure will be in place by then.

I think BEVs will be a godsend for those of us getting on in years.
Little maintenance costs, quiet, able to charge at home, are all attributes that appeal to me in my declining years.
I hope to eventually own a BEV, and expect if/when I do, it will be the last car I ever own.
 

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We have a great age demographic spread on this forum with various needs so it's interesting to see what range someone wants at certain points in their life. It's great that 200 miles is enough for you.

If your goal is to get a used Bolt EV, you may be in luck once the Model 3 comes out. A few members have put down a deposit for one: Who Put Down a Deposit for the Model 3?
I assume some people would switch over to the Model 3 once it's out and people are expecting to get one late 2018 or early 2019. You may not have to wait until 2020 for one.
 

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I wish too

Would be nice if Tesla allows individual owners to pay a fee so they can use the chargers. Come out with a special adapter they can use that's compatible with the bolt, leaf, etc.
My job is located just down from a Tesla eight-bay charging area. I had a Nissan Leaf and wished that they'd come out with an adapter and let us buy-in too.

Tesla said NO because Nissan didn't want to pitch in with the initial cost is what I heard/read.

The eight spaces sit mostly empty all day, except that ICE vehicles are allowed to park there two hours a day I think.
 
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