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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just bought this on eBay... I’ll let ya’ll know how well it works... $16 and connects inline with your EVSE. It has a resettable kWh meter, so you can reset it at the beginning of the month or week.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/302292039374
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Check the pull down... 100amp version with current tap. My plan is to mount it in a cut out dual gang cover. I’ll put another wall box right above the 14-50 plug inside the wall... plug at knee level, the readout at eye level in the same wall.
 

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Check the pull down... 100amp version with current tap. My plan is to mount it in a cut out dual gang cover. I’ll put another wall box right above the 14-50 plug inside the wall... plug at knee level, the readout at eye level in the same wall.
nice. thanks for clarifying. only saw the slash with the two different ratings.
 

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I use coils like these to monitor overall power consumption of the house. The measurements are used by my smart EVSE. When max power consumption is exceeded, the charge process is throttled. Works very well, but you have to keep in mind that the accuracy of these (my) coils is not lineair. At low current draw (less then 10% of max rated current), these readings are likely to be way to high. It is even conceivable that they produce a > 0 value when no current is drawn at all.

For my purpose, it does not matter, as I am only interested in throttling the EVSE when current draw is very high. But I may mess up your readings a bit, especially if you monitor over a 24 hour period, rather than just the charge period.
 

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I use coils like these to monitor overall power consumption of the house. The measurements are used by my smart EVSE. When max power consumption is exceeded, the charge process is throttled. Works very well, but you have to keep in mind that the accuracy of these (my) coils is not lineair. At low current draw (less then 10% of max rated current), these readings are likely to be way to high. It is even conceivable that they produce a > 0 value when no current is drawn at all.

For my purpose, it does not matter, as I am only interested in throttling the EVSE when current draw is very high. But I may mess up your readings a bit, especially if you monitor over a 24 hour period, rather than just the charge period.
Are you doing this to avoid drawing more than your main panel can supply?
If so, all I've got to say is "Yikes!"
 

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Cheapest I've seen capable of 240v by far. All the meters I had been looking at on Amazon were in the $100+ range.

Would be neat if houses came with smart breaker panels that reported use on each circuit as standard equipment.
 

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I have a JuiceBox Pro 40, which lets me see all kinds of data, including energy used.

This year I've used 688.2 kWh total from the EVSE's perspective. From the Bolt's perspective, I've used 673.3 kWh, but a small amount of that was charging away from home, so you can't use these two numbers to calculate charging efficiency.

Here's a graph of my charging this year. You can see that my commute is pretty short, and it's short enough that sometimes I come home for lunch so sometimes it's twice as much energy, but still not very much.
 

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I would think a Smart EVSE is quite a common thing. What would be wrong with it?
I would think that local building inspectors would have a problem with a setup that exceeds the rating of the main panel feed.

I've fought with them previously, and the best I could do was to have ganged breakers that turned one 50A circuit off while turning the other one on. The inspector wasn't the least interested in hearing about timers or other automated systems to limit draw. His entire focus was on the even remotest of possibilities that the main panel feed could be exceeded if the circuit control/timer system failed. He would not approve anything but physically ganged breakers that were a pain in the a$$ to flip back and forth to charge two EVs. Needless to say, I promptly set it up the way I wanted after he left. Everything had 50A breakers on them in the sub, and the sub feed had a 100A breaker to the main, and the main had its own 200A breaker. There were four levels of redundancy, including the DPDT 240V 50A pool pump timer. I wasn't the least bit concerned about melting my main feed with a simultaneous four level failure. This was in 1999. I'm hoping that the state of the art in power control for EVs has become more reliable, have UL/CSA approvals, and meet local and NEC requirements.
 

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I would think that local building inspectors would have a problem with a setup that exceeds the rating of the main panel feed.

I've fought with them previously, and the best I could do was to have ganged breakers that turned one 50A circuit off while turning the other one on. The inspector wasn't the least interested in hearing about timers or other automated systems to limit draw. His entire focus was on the even remotest of possibilities that the main panel feed could be exceeded if the circuit control/timer system failed. He would not approve anything but physically ganged breakers that were a pain in the a$$ to flip back and forth to charge two EVs. Needless to say, I promptly set it up the way I wanted after he left. Everything had 50A breakers on them in the sub, and the sub feed had a 100A breaker to the main, and the main had its own 200A breaker. There were four levels of redundancy, including the DPDT 240V 50A pool pump timer. I wasn't the least bit concerned about melting my main feed with a simultaneous four level failure. This was in 1999. I'm hoping that the state of the art in power control for EVs has become more reliable, have UL/CSA approvals, and meet local and NEC requirements.
Our grid hookups are in general 'slightly' less dimensioned than yours. My main breakers are 3 x 25 amps (3 real phases, 120 deg shifted each with a 25 amps main breaker). Connected to each main breaker, I have 5 or 6 16 amps circuit breakers (not counting the breaker for the EVSEs). So, the combined load of the circuit breakers connected to a single phase well exceeds the capacity of the main breakers. Potentially, you could blow out the main breaker without blowing out the circuit breakers. Over here, this is very common setup. And blowing a main breaker doesn't happen a lot. Never happened to me.

IMHO the position of your inspector does not make a lot of sense. Even with a fixed 16 amps EVSE, the EVSE could fail at some time and accidentally tell the car it could draw 32 amps. And even when it didn't fail, the car could fail to adhere to the pilot signal and draw 32 amps anyway. From the inspectors perspective, I guess it should not be allowed at all to connect a car with a 32 amps OBC to a grid hookup of 25 amps, because the EVSe or car might fail. And even when the car and the EVSE were both working fine, a shortcut in the wires between them could still lead to a much higher current.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
i was just trying to research the IRC (international residential code) because I recall that for certain amperage circuits, you must have a dedicated feed and not cascade multiple devices. I can't find it though.... But I think the bigger problem for Greg Brew was the actual connections on the plugs. The terminal strips on most high amperage plugs are intended to land ONE wire. 14-50 for example. Some are designed to land more than one, the US 15amp duplex plug for example. To solve this, you can buy a multi cable block that will allow you to properly connect 3 wires (in / out 1 / out2) together.

Juicebox has an article on this: https://support.emotorwerks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002651411-Load-Sharing-Use-and-Setup

Matter of fact, when we added a pool house, we double lugged the 200amp feed to my house at the meter base using this: http://www.newark.com/panduit/lam2a...5?MER=bn_level5_5NP_EngagementRecSingleItem_2 . I'm running 200amp service to my house and 100amp service to my pool house from a single 200amp meter base.

I think maybe your inspector may have misunderstood that the purpose of the circuit breaker is to protect the wires, not the total potential amperage draw of the circuit. For example, I have a 15 amp breaker servicing 6 15amp outlets and it's perfectly legal and safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Our grid hookups are in general 'slightly' less dimensioned than yours. My main breakers are 3 x 25 amps (3 real phases, 120 deg shifted each with a 25 amps main breaker). Connected to each main breaker, I have 5 or 6 16 amps circuit breakers (not counting the breaker for the EVSEs). So, the combined load of the circuit breakers connected to a single phase well exceeds the capacity of the main breakers. Potentially, you could blow out the main breaker without blowing out the circuit breakers. Over here, this is very common setup. And blowing a main breaker doesn't happen a lot. Never happened to me.
If you think our USA split phase electrical system is funny, you should try out our units for temperature and distance. ha! We do have real 3 phase here, but not in residential. Two legs of 120v at 3 phase is 208v for us. 120v/240v as you know is 180 degree single phase. I've never seen a 3 phase panel box.. if you have a picture of one, I'd love to see how the rails are setup internally... or are your breakers all DIN rail mounted?

By the way, I am reminded... in spite of our crazy units of measurement and electrical system, there are two types of countries.... Those which use the metric system and those which have put a man on the moon! >:)
 

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If you think our USA split phase electrical system is funny, you should try out our units for temperature and distance. ha! We do have real 3 phase here, but not in residential. Two legs of 120v at 3 phase is 208v for us. 120v/240v as you know is 180 degree single phase. I've never seen a 3 phase panel box.. if you have a picture of one, I'd love to see how the rails are setup internally... or are your breakers all DIN rail mounted?

By the way, I am reminded... in spite of our crazy units of measurement and electrical system, there are two types of countries.... Those which use the metric system and those which have put a man on the moon! >:)
Lest we forget...the country that put a man on the moon also crashed a hundred million+ dollar Mars orbiter into the Red Planet because Lockheed Martin neglected to convert course correction data to SI before feeding the data to the JPL.

https://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/
 

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if you have a picture of one, I'd love to see how the rails are setup internally... or are your breakers all DIN rail mounted?
There is no rails other than DIN rails with loose individual components connected by a bunch of wires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ampera, can you point me to a weidmuller, omega (or other brand) of din terminal block that will allow 1 wire in and 2 out? The solution in the USA seems to be insulated power blocks which just "float" inside a panel box... I'm much rather use DIN rail terminal strips. The wire size is 6AWG (13mm^2??). The largest I've been able to find is 8.3mm^2.
 

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Ampera, can you point me to a weidmuller, omega (or other brand) of din terminal block that will allow 1 wire in and 2 out? The solution in the USA seems to be insulated power blocks which just "float" inside a panel box... I'm much rather use DIN rail terminal strips. The wire size is 6AWG (13mm^2??). The largest I've been able to find is 8.3mm^2.
Sorry, with 25 amps main breakers (or even 35), we do not (need to) use wires thicker than 6mm2.
 
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