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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This morning I came across an interesting article. Please see below
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2017/10/15/elon-musk-tesla-chevy-bolt-electric-vehicle-battery-range/758601001/

As an ICE owner myself all my life - waiting for my first EV (Chevy Bolt EV Premier 2018), I always said that the perfect EV car would be one to be able to reach the same KM/miles as any ICE. In my optimism and perfect world, the perfect EV will allow me to drive from Toronto to Montreal (550 km/341.7 miles), going between 100-120 km/62.5-74.5 miles with AC or heater on the entire time.
So the experts are right to say the -sweet spot- for EV is less than 1200 km/764 miles. To me a good enough range would be 800 km/497 miles which is already 250km/155 miles more than what my ICE achieves today. If I switch all cars in the household from ICE to EV, I want the same luxuries of an ICE, meaning travelling with family as far as a full gas tank can take us without the need to recharge during the trip.
I keep reading on the internet that the average commute distance to work is 48km/30 miles. I do not recal the referred location in the article nor do I recall if that is a total daily commute. I trust most people commute farther than that on a daily basis. Not sure where you guys are - But if you live in or the vicinities of the GTA (Greater Toronto Area, Ontario), the daily commute total can be anywhere between 80 and 200 km / 31 and 134 miles, way more than the -average- I read about.
I myself drive a total of 160km/99.4 miles daily, without thinking of extra stops, which is why I am getting an EV. I spend an average of 90 bucks weekly in gas...
But I digress.
To you, what is the perfect range for an EV for you to let go completely of any ICE?
 

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Interesting question, and one that probably isn?t going to have the same answer for everyone. If you want the same refilling capability as an ICE, you want at least a 300mi range with the ability to recharge in 15-30 minutes. But the Infrastructure needs to be there. I don?t want to plan on stopping at exactly one charging station on my road trip and hope that the charger works and no one else is using it or parking in the way. Compare that with a gas station which is pretty much guaranteed to work, and located at most interstate exits.

I would love for the EV charging infrastructure to be there, but for now there?s no way I?m getting rid of my other ICE. If we ever go on a road trip (and we do at most 1 or 2 a year over 300mi) we just take our Jeep. For everything else I will use my new Bolt and my wife can put a few miles in the Jeep here or there when I?m not home. This way there are less miles on the higher cost/maintenance ICE. Win win across the board. A good alternative might be to rent a car for road trips and have 2 EVs, but then you start to wonder, why have two cars with huge battery capacity going unused 80-90% of the time when most trips are way less than the Bolt?s 240 mile range?
 

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For ladies taking long trips I'd say 650 miles between trips. Is this possible only time will tell with improved battery technology.
 

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Yes, agree, making real road trip range the decider is going to do more harm to EV adaption than good. It will take a paradigm shift to renting the size ICE needed for the very few road trips most actually take per year.

I've got several numbnuts acquaintances who own huge three-row SUVs and/or quad cab super duty pickups and only the driver in them most trips. "I need to be able to tow my boat/RV/golf cart/haul my big dogs/haul construction materials." They're manufacturing a couple-times-a-year excuse justifying their driving the big honker every day. Ford's new F450 Limited is an 8,000# $100,000 monster and is so popular they can't build them fast enough. Those I see come through my local Ford service center seldom have a scratch in the bed.

(Also, not everyone buying big will admit to it, but the idea of wanting max mass on their side in a collision sells more than a few big rigs. In a recent AP newspaper article on the ever larger, ever more expensive pickups being offered for 2018, a buyer listed several reasons, including, "He also wanted something big to protect his four kids.")

Bottom line - for the mass market, logic won't sell EVs, because that's not how they ever make auto buying decisions, but EVs will come faster than most think.

jack vines
 

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My own personal 'druthers would be an EV with a range of about 500km and the ability to add about 300km of range in an hour. That would give me a pretty reliable way to travel 6-700km with a break for lunch - that's about as much as I'd want to travel in a day.

I don't travel that far every day, of course - but I'm retired, would prefer to have only one car, and would like to be able to make those kinds of trips a few times per year without the hassle of renting an unfamiliar car.

In the meantime, I'm eager to get my Bolt and start trying it out with some more modest road trips.
 

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I recently had to make a trip (275 miles) in my old ICE slightly outside the Bolt's range. I had hoped to make the trip with the Bolt. But, I'm still waiting for my order from the dealer. The trip with the Bolt would have been difficult to say the least. My ICE made it non stop. But driving the Bolt 75 mph with HVAC active would not have made it without at least one stop. Or maybe I could have drove 50 mph without running the HVAC and made it. There were no fast charging stations advertised on the route. Only option was camp grounds with 50A RV plugins. Then one has to buy a 32 amp charger with the right plug to take advantage of that. Funny, I did pass a slow moving Tesla X on that trip. My fear of driving 50 mph would be to get in an accident by disrupting the faster moving traffic. Also thought it would be sweet if the rest stops had charging stations. But some of the rest stops are pretty remote and probably wouldn't have enough electrical power to support them.

Back to the question at hand, 300 mile range seems to be the ICE replacement range that most people would want. But, without a fast way of charging, there's no range of an EV that would be acceptable if people can't charge fast. This is for road trips only. For work, around town, nearby town travel, daily driving, etc..., I think the Bolt's range is perfect. But everyone I talk to about an EV, they immediately talk about how it won't work for long trips. People just don't want to lose that option, even if they never take those trips.
 

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What range to buy into the EV idea? It took a range of 238 miles for me to buy my first EV car!

For the last 4 years, I've commuted on an electric motorcycle that gets 100 miles in the city and about 60 miles at freeway speeds. My commute varied from 25 to 50 miles. (I used the bike on the job). From that experience I know that those ranges met my needs 90% of the time. I rarely needed to charge outside my garage.

I also saw the frustration of a neighbor with an 80-mile range Leaf. He turned it in after a year.

So over 200 miles of range seems like nirvana. Also, I like the idea that a larger battery will degrade much more slowly. (My 9 kWh bike battery has 41K miles on it and no noticeable degradation).

I figure that for our infrequent road trips, until there's a workable charging infrastructure for us non-Tesla folks, I'll be more than happy to put the wear and tear on a rented ICE vehicle. I'll have the peace of mind that any breakdowns on the road will be handled by the rental car company. Economically, I'll still come out ahead.

We are both retired and the Bolt sees mostly errand duty, visits to friends and events, with some day trips around the San Francisco Bay Area. For the most part, it gets charged once a week. We are very pleased with how it has served our needs. If we charge once a week and if the battery gets 1000 cycles, it should last for the next 19 years, at which time I will be 92 and likely not driving too much!

I AM toying with the idea of buying a used camping van to do some bucket-list stuff and then selling it. I really want to support the fossil fuel companies as little as possible. I really want to not spew poison as I drive.
 

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Age affects this decision in that many of us over 70 do not want to drive over 240 miles without a long rest stop. IF that can be arranged at a DCFC, a day’s travel of 450 miles can be done “almost” as quickly as in an ICE vehicle. Overnight stops with a Level 2 EVSE nearby make the “speed of charge” question moot. I’ve done the 426 miles to DC with the overnight stop, and what would have been a grind, was easy to say the least. I’ve also done 370 miles to Detroit in a day and only had a leisurely lunch to account for the BEV/ICE difference. Both of these were with A/C albeit at a low use/higher temp setting. Instead of leaving at 6 am to get to the OBX by 6 pm, leave at noon to get there by noon, refreshed and relaxed. Bottom line: the Bolt does fine as it is!
 

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My fear of driving 50 mph would be to get in an accident by disrupting the faster moving traffic.
Just drive in the rightmost lane until you catch up to a slow-moving truck and then follow it. You don't have to tailgate it, just hang back and let people curse the truck for going slow instead of you.
 

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Just drive in the rightmost lane until you catch up to a slow-moving truck and then follow it. You don't have to tailgate it, just hang back and let people curse the truck for going slow instead of you.
The only problem with that plan is there is no truck going 50 mph. If you drive 50mph on the freeway, every truck driver will mad at you for being in the way.
 

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To me it's not range but the time it takes to replenish the battery.
This is what I'm thinking. A 200 mile range with a 10 minute recharge time would likely sell like hotcakes! 300 mile range and 10 minute recharge and it's game over for the ICE. That's basically what my old Ford Focus did.
 

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Just drive in the rightmost lane until you catch up to a slow-moving truck and then follow it. You don't have to tailgate it, just hang back and let people curse the truck for going slow instead of you.
Actually if I was driving a Bolt that day, I could have used your technique and pulled in behind the slow moving Tesla X that I saw.
 

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If you drive 50mph on the freeway, every truck driver will mad at you for being in the way.
I don't agree with this. Truck drivers are professionals, they will see you far enough in advance to plan their lane change and go around you.

Just don't drive below the speed of traffic (regardless of the speed limit) anywhere besides the rightmost lane and you will be fine. Others may be upset, but if you are in the rightmost lane, it's their problem not yours.
 

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Before I ended up buying the Bolt, I looked at a log of how many miles we'd traveled per day from a fleet tracker on our old Golf TDI. We really hadn't driven more than 200 miles in a day, so the Bolt fit into that perfectly. There's still the matter of charging it overnight when you're a ways from home, but any farther than that and we'd probably just rent a car.
 

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For ICE to be forgotten you need to have at least 300 miles per charge and a 're-filling' time of no more then 15 min to FULL... yeah I know people say not to fill it, but if you are just talking long trips here and there it is not going to make a difference.
 

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The only problem with that plan is there is no truck going 50 mph. If you drive 50mph on the freeway, every truck driver will mad at you for being in the way.
You may not find one going 50mph, but if you're traveling for any distance at all then you'll certainly find one that's going slower than the prevailing traffic flow. And if you follow him for long enough he'll catch up to another truck and go around it, leaving you with an even slower truck to follow.
 

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To me it's not range but the time it takes to replenish the battery.
I agree, it is time to recharge and infrastructure for recharging is the problem not the range.

Hypothetically if we could just turn every gas station into an electric charging station and we could charge in 5 minutes or so I would be perfectly content if the car only had a range of 100 miles.
 

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There is no EV range that would have me let go all petrol vehicles. It would be foolish to buy an EV with a battery big enough to go the longest distance I drive in a year, since I only make that drive occasionally. The cost would be crazy high, and it would be pointless to lug around the weight of an enormous battery for my typical 50 mile trips.

EV is the wrong tool for long distance drives. I'm keeping a petrol vehicle since it is the right tool for long distance drives. In a multi-car family, this is no problem at all.

The right range in an EV for me is about 100 miles. This covers 99% of my trips, and the other 1% are usually much further than the Bolts range (500-1000 miles).
 
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