[jlsoaz]

For true. Legend has it Honda built an S2000 with an experimental CVT which matched the road speed and engine torque curve at all times. It was quicker, smoother and more economical than the 6-speed manual, but not one of their focus group drivers said they'd consider buying a CVT. Just not as much perceived fun to drive. They loved ripping up through the gears and bangshifting at 8,000 RPMs. Just having the engine stay in its most efficient range was boring, even though they were accelerating faster.

Thinking about it, I've had some of my troglodyte motorhead friends say the same about the Tesla Ludicrous experience. "Yeah, it's faster, but there's no sturm und drang. Half the fun of acceleration is impressing bystanders with the smokin' tires and the revs and the speed shifts."

jack vines

I guess I took the pledge too many years ago to drive a vehicle with a plug on it if I could afford to do it, and I'll stick with that, but for pure enjoyment I can't help but miss one or two of the better stick-shift vehicles I've driven.

 

[rgmichel]

I guess I took the pledge too many years ago to drive a vehicle with a plug on it, if I could afford to do it, and I'll stick with that, but for pure enjoyment I can't help but miss one or two of the better stick-shift vehicles I've driven.

I totally agree. As a railroad and steam engine enthusiast, I cannot avoid the parallels with steam engines, which died so many decades ago in the face of more efficient technologies. The ICE is going the way of the steam engine, which had so many maintenance requirements, and required so much fuel that it became untenable. Its just a matter of time that ICE will go the way of the steam engine, except for the enthusiastic nostalgia that will remain for decades to come.

 

[hatchy]

I'm pretty sure I drive my manual cars just as hard as you Vert.. Probably harder. I'm not saying I don't do the things you talk about. I however am under no illusions about what I'm doing. Yeah my clutch isn't going to last as long, so what. It is putting slight additional wear on everything, not just the trans. Valvetrain, rings, whatever. If you're enjoying a twisty road, then yeah of course downshift brake. If you're in traffic, doing your daily drive, use a sensible gear to keep your rpms low and brake with your brakes. I don't know why you have to give people such a hard time about this stuff.

 

[GregBrew]

I totally agree. As a railroad and steam engine enthusiast, I cannot avoid the parallels with steam engines, which died so many decades ago in the face of more efficient technologies. The ICE is going the way of the steam engine, which had so many maintenance requirements, and required so much fuel that it became untenable. Its just a matter of time that ICE will go the way of the steam engine, except for the enthusiastic nostalgia that will remain for decades to come.

There's a pretty cool Rush song about a kid whose uncle kept an old ICE sports car, after the "motor laws" went into effect. It's based some time in the not so distant future, and is called "Red Barchetta". A little Sci Fi story, set to music. I love it.




The song: (Best heard at high volume on a good audio system.)

Lyrics:


My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits


Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream


I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
I fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime


Wind
In my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge...


Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware


Suddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air car
Shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chase


Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope
I've got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded at the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle at the fireside


Songwriters: Alex Lifeson / Neil Peart / Geddy Lee Weinrib


Red Barchetta lyrics © Core Music Publishing, Ole Core Music Publishing, ANTHEM ENTERTAINMENT GROUP OBO CORE MUSIC PUBLISHING

 

[jlsoaz]

Thanks. Along the same lines, apparently this is an upcoming PHEV that might be a bit fun to drive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=-LLsNjYNRts

There's a pretty cool Rush song about a kid whose uncle kept an old ICE sports car, after the "motor laws" went into effect. It's based some time in the not so distant future, and is called "Red Barchetta". A little Sci Fi story, set to music. I love it.
[...]

 

[Boltsport]

Newby Bolt driver out of a Prius. Can somebody explain to me the experience on the highway in the L mode? Can you drive as you do in traffic? How do you maintain 60-65 mph without using cruise control? Does the brake light come on when you decelerate with our foot off the accelerator? When does the brake light come on?

 

[XJ12]

Newby Bolt driver out of a Prius. Can somebody explain to me the experience on the highway in the L mode? Can you drive as you do in traffic? How do you maintain 60-65 mph without using cruise control? Does the brake light come on when you decelerate with our foot off the accelerator? When does the brake light come on?

Car drives the same in L and D until you lift the accelerator where the 'L' mode provides more regen. In 'D' you can remove your foot from the accelerator and it's programmed to behave like an automatic transmission. 'L' mode behaves like you have downshifted on an automatic transmission. But unlike an automatic transmission, you can leave it in 'L' as there's one fixed gear that is exactly the same for the 'D' mode.

Only challenge I originally had with 'L' mode on the highway was when disengaging the cruise control. I had to teach myself to push the accelerator down before disengaging the cruise control to prevent the car from lurching me and my passengers forward from the sudden deacceleration of the 'L' mode's regen.

The brake light automatically comes on when regen provides a deacceleration greater than a preprogrammed threshold (think it was negative 0.1 g). Only thing to remember, is that once fully stopped the brake light won't be on unless you put your foot on the brake pedal.

You can peruse this thread: https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/when-do-brake-lights-come-on.14162/

 

[micantony]

New Bolt owner here as well. Tested out when the brake lights come on in 'L' mode with the Wife following me and they come on when you are regenerating. So every time the regen symbol was showing I was regenerating, the brake lights were on.
I did not test on the highway, only regular street driving. It put my mind at ease that the drivers behind me are being notified I am slowing down while I'm in 'L' mode.

 

[Packard V8]

It put my mind at ease that the drivers behind me are being notified I am slowing down while I'm in 'L' mode.

It's interesting how this concern about brake lights on regeneration deceleration comes up on dozens of threads here. For the first hundred and twenty years of automobile operation, deceleration via ICE compression in cars and trucks never triggered brake lights. Why is it of such concern for we BEV owners?

jack vines

 

[Vertiformed]

It's interesting how this concern about brake lights on regeneration deceleration comes up on dozens of threads here. For the first hundred and twenty years of automobile operation, deceleration via ICE compression in cars and trucks never triggered brake lights. Why is it of such concern for we BEV owners?

I'm sure there are plenty of US drivers who've only ever driven an automatic and never even thought downshifting to slow the car down was possible in their car (except perhaps as some kind of special case for steep hills).

 

[Dimitrij]

It's interesting how this concern about brake lights on regeneration deceleration comes up on dozens of threads here. For the first hundred and twenty years of automobile operation, deceleration via ICE compression in cars and trucks never triggered brake lights. Why is it of such concern for we BEV owners?

jack vines

Perhaps not for all "we (wee?) BEV owners", but for Bolt ppl., because in the L mode the car can decelerate really fast - I remember seeing something like 58 kW in green on the readout. After some practice one can quit using the brake pedal altogether other than for unplanned hard braking.

 

[Packard V8]

I'm sure there are plenty of US drivers who've only ever driven an automatic and never even thought downshifting to slow the car down was possible in their car (except perhaps as some kind of special case for steep hills).

, because in the L mode the car can decelerate really fast

Agree to both the above. When I get back in an ICE and try to one-pedal it, it's a rude shock it isn't slowing down.

Because I'm an old guy who's driven everything from manual transmission sports cars to manual transmission trucks, compression braking was the norm for so many years, But yes, when the modern small engines and 8-10 speed automatics came along, lift the go pedal and the vehicle just keeps sailing. On many automatics with paddle shifters, manually downshifting on steep hills produces way more RPM and way more noise, but a 2-liter engine in a 4500# SUV isn't going to produce any meaningful compression braking.

jack vines

 

[essen.bolt]

jms, regarding techniques for regen etc. you are in for a massive treat w/driving the Bolt in "L" mode. I've tried explaining this to friends but they don't get it like folks used to not get the world wide web, until they were shown. Mind-blowingly good and fun, brings a whole new level of art to driving a car. Enough to freshen the experience after 44 years of licensed and 50 years of total driving.

I agree with driving in "L" especially coming from driving a manual for nearly 29 years and motorcycles for 5 years (can't wait to get an E-Moto)! I love how precise you can drive with the Bolt and the only time I really need to depress the brake pedal is when I am at a full stop! so much fun!

 

[Packard V8]

I agree with driving in "L" especially coming from driving a manual for nearly 29 years and motorcycles for 5 years (can't wait to get an E-Moto)! I love how precise you can drive with the Bolt and the only time I really need to depress the brake pedal is when I am at a full stop! so much fun!

X2, one-pedal is the future. Just asking, why is the brake pedal needed at a full stop? When we're agreeing one-pedal is so nice, why then go back to the ancient two-pedal drudgery?

jack vines

 

[micantony]

because we do not trust OTHER drivers to be alert enough without us shining our bright red light in front of their faces. that’s why.

 

[Boltsport]

I'm sure there are plenty of US drivers who've only ever driven an automatic and never even thought downshifting to slow the car down was possible in their car (except perhaps as some kind of special case for steep hills).

Ha. I drove a stick for 30 years without ever thinking about it. Including a lot of downshifting. Although you do have a tendency to work the brakes some during the slowdown process. I used to have an old 911SC with a terrible gearbox ( the infamous 915) that was hard to downshift to 4th--you had to go directly to 3 from 5, and that was a bit of a jolt. I went directly from a stick to CVT with the Prius, which I like because of its smoothness. My first car was an auto Chevy Corvair in '65, with the shifter on the dash.

 

[Vertiformed]

because we do not trust OTHER drivers to be alert enough without us shining our bright red light in front of their faces. that’s why.

Here's what I don't quite get about this. At a stop-light where traffic has backed up and the light has just gone green, traffic may be moving but still very slowly (i.e., 2 mph or less). The light is green and no-one's brake lights are on, but someone driving down the road at 50 mph totally oblivious could easily plough into the back of them. Yet how many ICE drivers worry, on a regular basis, about that moment. I'd say approximately none.

Plus, for rear-end collisions, there are plenty of people who were stopped with their brake lights on who got ploughed into by a distracted driver.

FWIW, my strategy is this. I'm happy to have a one-pedal stop and don't worry unduly about it. But if I see someone looming in my rearview who doesn't seem to be approaching a bit too rapidly, I'll move my foot to the brake, figuring that seeing the change in the scene from my brake-lights illuminating will trigger their braking instinct. That said, if my stop needs me to push the footbrake (e.g., staying put on a downward hill), no big deal.

 

[Sean Nelson]

X2, one-pedal is the future. Just asking, why is the brake pedal needed at a full stop? When we're agreeing one-pedal is so nice, why then go back to the ancient two-pedal drudgery?

because we do not trust OTHER drivers to be alert enough without us shining our bright red light in front of their faces. that’s why.

No reason to use brake lights as an excuse not to use 1-pedal mode because even then the brake lights come whenever you're slowing down. They just not on when you're fully stopped unless you press the brake pedal. If you want the lights to come on when you're stopped, press the brake pedal, it's not difficult.

 

[NickSP]

Here's a tip. Worked great for me on my i3 and now on the bolt. Drive at suggested speed limits. If the street sign says 25/35/65 then drive at that maintained speed as much as possible and profit.
I have a weekend ritual (coffee, drive and music) with my son who used to ask me why TF am I driving so slow? I told him it's great for the environment.
Works 100% of the times with millennials.

 

[desiv]

These are the driving habits that will help you win the game:

Drive Gently.
Like there was a double-tall extra hot with no foam sitting on the dashboard in front of you and you didn't want to WEAR it.

That just reminded me of something I saw on TV once.
It was a news bit (I think) on vehicle safety with the (then) increase of larger SUVs on the roads.
A safety expert was saying part of the problem was the fact that people "felt" safer in these big cars and, as a result, drove much less safely.
I think the interviewer asked him about safety features, like airbags and such. And he said something like:
"Those are terrible, because people feel safer and drive worse as a result. If you want to make people drive more safely, you should replace that steering wheel airbag with a giant SPIKE in the middle of the wheel. That would get people to be more cautious."
(That was definitely not exactly how the discussion went, but that was the concept, and I loved the bit about the giant spike in the steering wheel!)