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"progress in the past 2 years." ... I cannot imagine what it was like for some of you really early adopters sitting at a level 1 charger for god nows how may hours. lol..

So yeah level 2 chargers one of those progresses that are making big difference..still has to get faster though for family rides and businesses where time is money.
 

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  1. Still a City car.. the masses are not going to pile the family in a Bolt and go for a 500-mile trip (1000 round trip)... if they do it would be the last time. OK KIds we went 200 miles ..now were going top stit at this charger for 45-hour...good luck with that. I understand the "want" to put a nice spin on doing 500 mile trip..but it isn't going to be a reality that most people would every write home about what great experience it was sitting at Charge Stations(and that's not even considering winter)
  2. There is no such thing as"proper planning" running uber and lyft. My rides are stacked..one on top of another all pretty much all day long. The only planning I can do is to take a 30-minute lunch and head over to the ONE fast charger in Town. and hope I don't get a Minneapolis ride before I get to the charger ... (If I do then I either take the range risk or lose out on a $100 bill for 1 1 and 15-minute ride. So no there really is no "proper planning"...I can try and get to the charger (and sit for half-hour) before my expected range gets to 110 Miles ...that's about the best that can be done
  3. I think the closest long-range would-be Model 3 long-range 350 Miles.. that extra 100+ miles for ME would be a big deal.
You're projecting again. I know plenty of EV owners who travel in EVs with kids, and the additional break times are actually welcome. Imagine being cooped up in a car for 8 hours straight with kids, pets, etc.? Now imagine being able to let them out two to three times for 30 to 45 minutes over a 10 hour period? Which sounds more enjoyable? I've even had Tesla owners tell me that their kids have actually told them that they hate Tesla's route planning because they would much rather take a couple of long breaks rather than a bunch of short 15 to 20 minute breaks.

I've mentioned this in another thread, but I once drove several friends to a wedding in San Francisco (a trip I make fairly regularly). I ended up making four to five stops including one fuel stop over ~400 miles, and the trip took well over 10 hours. That was in my WRX. In my Bolt EV, the trip is two hours shorter including charging stops.

Again, though, as I said, maybe a "city taxi" is a better description for the Bolt EV. If you are expecting to drive for 4 to 5 hours straight followed by a single 30-minute lunch with access to only one DC fast charger, that's going to be a struggle.

Also, you won't see 350 miles out of a Tesla Model 3. Outside of hypermiling, the best I see from Model 3 LR owners for typical, real-world driving is 280 to 290 miles. Now don't get me wrong, that's still a huge difference. In fact, I think people were surprised by how big of a deal the extra 21 miles is in the 2020 Chevy Bolt EV.

I think your support for the Bolt is terrific but sometimes you are blinded to the realities of the Bolts limits...Which BTW as LESS than Most EV's.
Define "limits." I'm pretty well versed in all the EV options currently available today. The first thing you need to do, though, is to set your expectations based on price. The Bolt EV is as capable or more capable than most EVs in its price range. If you want to add $10,000 or $15,000 or $20,000, yes, you're going to see notable improvements.

Again the Bolt is a FANTASTIC Car ..and for most people in a lot of ways the perfect little car .. but I think it is important that potential buyers people fully it's limitations ... interstates and cold weather seriously affect range performance(and that goes for al ev's)
You just contradicted yourself here. Are you talking about limitations that are specific to the Bolt EV, or to all EVs in general? Each EV is going to have its strengths and weaknesses, it's true. Looking across the field of all EVs currently available, the Bolt EV is in the strange position of being above average in just about every category (cargo capacity, charging speed, efficiency, range, etc.). It doesn't necessarily excel at any of those things, but being above average in nearly all is important.

Also, you appear to be placing a premium on very specific categories where some other EVs do excel. That's fine, and if those are the things you prioritize, then no, the Bolt EV might not be the right choice for you.

anyway..all god but along with all the great new EVs there will be a storm of complaints..mostly centered on highway range and winter range, IMO
We've already seen those complaints, and they'll continue, sure. Luckily, for most people, those trips are very rare. As many self-proclaimed road warriors as there are, most people aren't going to drive more than 300 miles in a sitting. Those who do might be impacted by the constraints of upcoming EVs, but it's really going to depend on the individual and the scaffolding provided by the automaker.
 

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"progress in the past 2 years." ... I cannot imagine what it was like for some of you really early adopters sitting at a level 1 charger for god nows how may hours. lol..

So yeah level 2 chargers one of those progresses that are making big difference..still has to get faster though for family rides and businesses where time is money.
The really early adopters would take road trips, not attempt to make cannonball runs. Buddy Boyd, who drove across Canada and back in his Bolt EV in July 2017 used the trip to promote a zero-waste lifestyle. You're not really "sitting" at a L2 charger for hours. You plug in, go about your business, and leave when you're ready.
 

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I have to say, owning a Bolt in a rural setting and often putting 80+ miles on it in a day: anybody who calls it a "city car" has no clue what that term actually means.
Yup. I have about 3,000 miles that I need to drive in the next month or so, mostly rural highways and byways with some Interstate driving, averaging over 150 miles a day. The Bolt EV doesn't make me feel constrained or restricted in any way.
 

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We're 250 miles from the nearest big city, even Home Depot is 90 miles away. The Bolt is our only car.
Those who call the Bolt a City Car are 6 sigma type folks in terms of usage. They would say for example that if they wanted to do a day trip round trip to the city 250 miles away and they have only 15 minutes to stop and refuel, that the Bolt isn't up to the task. So, to them it's a city car.

The common theme is that they have no time. No time to stop. No time to eat. No time to refuel. So, to them it's a city car because they can get up in the morning, drive around all day, and never have to stop to refuel. But they cannot do that on road trips. Hence the term.

As Zoom honestly pointed out in his post, just not willing to adapt. And right now there's no need to. I'm curious what this segment may do years from now when ICE isn't available and charge times are still 15 minutes or so.

ga2500ev
 

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As Zoom honestly pointed out in his post, just not willing to adapt. And right now there's no need to. I'm curious what this segment may do years from now when ICE isn't available and charge times are still 15 minutes or so.

ga2500ev
I think we're going to find out where the actual demand really is as more people gain real-world experience with EVs. I have no doubt that the technology will improve to the point where 5 and 10 minute charge times are theoretically possible; however, that equipment (on both the supply and car side) will be expensive. Let's see who is actually willing to pay to cut a 20 to 30 minute charge session in half. My guess is, there simply won't be enough demand to drive that infrastructure development.

For what it's worth, Porsche has already released a software update option that allows owners to slow down their charging speed.

 

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And the infrastructure is really separate from the car. If you say that the Bolt EV is a city car because your infrastructure doesn't allow you to drive long distances quickly, you are projecting your situation on others. The car is the car, and its capabilities should be weighed on its own merits. Outside factors, such as infrastructure, are something that should be assessed separately.
I agree with the majority of what you say here. And I did point out that I wasn't trying to knock the car, it delivers on it's specs. My infrastructure sucks. But in my example, which is unique to me. I'm traveling 400 miles. It can be done in 6 hours, but for me with a stop for lunch, fuel and stretch the legs I tend to do that trip in 7. My intention is not to project my situation onto others. I plugged the trip into ABRP, and it said that I would be driving my bolt for just under 7 hours and it recommended 3 charging stops for 1 hour and 26 minutes. I would arrive into Sandusky, OH with 10% onboard. So, ABRP says the journey in the Bolt would take 8 hours 9 minutes. That is an extra hour that I ideally don't want to spend on the road. And it assumes that all my charging experiences are good. Odds are they will be. But in the real world, I think I would charge longer to 'pad' for unforeseen events. Not sure people do that, but I think I would. Then, I arrive at my cousin's house, empty. Well, not empty, but with 10%. Or maybe because I padded it, 25%. He's got a 120v outlet waiting for me, so I'm going to be essentially stranded a bit. Now, this is my situation, which is my norm. Is it anyone elses? I have no idea. Now, I would probably figure out somehow to arrive with more so I adjusted ABRP to arrive with 65%. That put this journey at 9 hours, 32 minutes with 2 hours and 26 minutes of charging in 4 stops. This is why, to me, it's a city car. And it's not a bad thing .... it's just what this consumer, me, values and has the opinion of.
 

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I have to say, owning a Bolt in a rural setting and often putting 80+ miles on it in a day: anybody who calls it a "city car" has no clue what that term actually means.
To me a city car is one where it's best suited for short haul travel. For me, that's about 70-140 miles per day max. My daily commute is 70's. When I go wild, I will go 140 in a day. I don't take it on long trips that require mandatory fueling stops. Not trying to argue or change anyone's opinion, just expressing mine.
 

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I agree with the majority of what you say here. And I did point out that I wasn't trying to knock the car, it delivers on it's specs. My infrastructure sucks. But in my example, which is unique to me. I'm traveling 400 miles. It can be done in 6 hours, but for me with a stop for lunch, fuel and stretch the legs I tend to do that trip in 7. My intention is not to project my situation onto others. I plugged the trip into ABRP, and it said that I would be driving my bolt for just under 7 hours and it recommended 3 charging stops for 1 hour and 26 minutes. I would arrive into Sandusky, OH with 10% onboard. So, ABRP says the journey in the Bolt would take 8 hours 9 minutes. That is an extra hour that I ideally don't want to spend on the road. And it assumes that all my charging experiences are good. Odds are they will be. But in the real world, I think I would charge longer to 'pad' for unforeseen events. Not sure people do that, but I think I would. Then, I arrive at my cousin's house, empty. Well, not empty, but with 10%. Or maybe because I padded it, 25%. He's got a 120v outlet waiting for me, so I'm going to be essentially stranded a bit. Now, this is my situation, which is my norm. Is it anyone elses? I have no idea. Now, I would probably figure out somehow to arrive with more so I adjusted ABRP to arrive with 65%. That put this journey at 9 hours, 32 minutes with 2 hours and 26 minutes of charging in 4 stops. This is why, to me, it's a city car. And it's not a bad thing .... it's just what this consumer, me, values and has the opinion of.
Unfortunately, ABRP can be extremely conservative, though the paid, premium access appears to be far more accurate for the Bolt EV. Regardless, yes, if you can't charge at your destination, that could affect things. 120 V might be fine if you'll stay the whole weekend without any driving. Otherwise, access to a dryer socket would be best.
 

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I have to say, owning a Bolt in a rural setting and often putting 80+ miles on it in a day: anybody who calls it a "city car" has no clue what that term actually means.
80 miles isn't exactly a long trip. IN a Major Metro that's across town and back..


IN Minnesota yesterday it was 30-34 degrees when I worked from 4:30 am to 10 am. I used the heat off and on like any normal person would. I averaged 3.2 miles per kWh..about 190 miles worth of range IN TOWN ...didn't even get on the interstate. on the Interstate probably around 2.8-to 3.0 sure you can go 160 round trip but that's about it

I just don't want to see the masses buying these thinking they can drive anywhere just like they do with their ICE ..without very careful planning ..including if a charger is down where is your backup.

City Car ..maybe not best terminology but don't want families thinking this is a let's get on the Interstate and go visit grandma 700 miles away without being fully aware that means stopping 3-4 times for 30 minutes to an hour ..and the same on the return trip.
 

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I have to say, owning a Bolt in a rural setting and often putting 80+ miles on it in a day: anybody who calls it a "city car" has no clue what that term actually means.
Well said.

This is why the "why did you buy an L2 for home, you would be fine on the stock L1 charger" argument drives me nuts! For people living in a city this may be true, but it sure isn't the case for me!

Living where I do, it is not uncommon on a weekend to drive 70+ miles to one city to do something, then drive 70 miles back home (mostly at 75 mph) with a stop at home for a few hours for charging (adding about 75 miles of range) before hitting the road again to a different city 50 miles away and back... 240 miles in a day on the weekend is not uncommon, and I have done over 300 on several occasions... and this is all "local" driving, not a road trip. Before EA came to Memphis this required a stop at home to charge, and the stock L1 was not going to cut it even with a 240V adapter cable. Now, I can do the 100 mile round trip first, drive another 70ish miles to Memphis, arrive at low SOC and hit up the EA station in Memphis for 30 min before heading home, instead of taking a 3 hour break in the middle of my day at home to charge on 32 amp L2.

Later,

Keith

PS: I get the feeling that people like me are much more likely to take the Bolt on Road Trips, we are already used to planning our charging just on a normal weekend, so the idea of doing so on a trip seems "normal" to us.
 

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The common theme is that they have no time. No time to stop. No time to eat. No time to refuel. So, to them it's a city car because they can get up in the morning, drive around all day, and never have to stop to refuel. But they cannot do that on road trips. Hence the term.
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't call the Bolt a city car either. That said, even for roadtrips, it's not quite ideal. When I go 300 or 400 miles from the SF Bay Area to Los Angeles or the eastern Sierra or Humboldt, I do expect to make stops and enjoy the journey, as well as the destination. But the places that I would stop at - centers of little towns, parks, vista points, etc. typically don't have any sort of charging. So the charging time is often just wasted time.

Driving to/from Los Angeles is a perfect example - I used to always stop in the San Luis Obispo downtown to walk around the old mission and have lunch near the creek. Doesn't work with the Bolt - the only fast charger in town is in the shopping center 4 miles away. Ditto if I want to stretch my legs by the old pier or the bluffs above Shell Beach. Sure, I can fast charge in Pismo Beach - if I want to cool my heels at the outlet mall miles away from the actual beach.

With gas stations, I don't really care that much about their location as long as it's close to the route because I'm not spending much time there. With EV charging, things are different.
 

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Keith,

I'm one of those who suggest that folks consider L1 before automatically buying an L2 unit. Your described weekends are in the 99th percentile range of usage. The millions of folks in cities and suburbs who average less than 40 miles a day and max out locally under 100 can do just fine with L1. It's just the FOMO of the one possible time that they might need faster charging that drives the need to upgrade immediately without considering other options.

ga2500ev
 

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Keith,

I'm one of those who suggest that folks consider L1 before automatically buying an L2 unit. Your described weekends are in the 99th percentile range of usage. The millions of folks in cities and suburbs who average less than 40 miles a day and max out locally under 100 can do just fine with L1. It's just the FOMO of the one possible time that they might need faster charging that drives the need to upgrade immediately without considering other options.

ga2500ev
Oh, I understand that I am an outlier. There are people on this site (not you) that will say "Nobody needs L2 at home" and being in the outlier group that is frustrating to see. I was specifically talking about when I get asked why I thought I needed an L2... I even put it in quotes :)

I also said that L1 may work fine for people living in a city, but not for me personally. In other posts I have used myself as an example of an outlier in my needs and explained that most people don't need high amp L2 and to try an adapter cable if L1 doesn't meet their needs.

I was mainly speculating on weather rural EV owners who are outliers in this respect are also outliers on being comfortable with road tripping a Bolt.

Later,

Keith
 

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Oh, I understand that I am an outlier. There are people on this site (not you) that will say "Nobody needs L2 at home" and being in the outlier group that is frustrating to see. I was specifically talking about when I get asked why I thought I needed an L2... I even put it in quotes :)

I also said that L1 may work fine for people living in a city, but not for me personally. In other posts I have used myself as an example of an outlier in my needs and explained that most people don't need high amp L2 and to try an adapter cable if L1 doesn't meet their needs.

I was mainly speculating on weather rural EV owners who are outliers in this respect are also outliers on being comfortable with road tripping a Bolt.

Later,

Keith
Huh, I didn’t realize that home level 2 charging was so unfashionable. Count me among the outliers. For me and my wife, it was a no-brainer, to give us an added level of convenience and confidence to accommodate normal AND unexpected travel needs. We use the Bolt for short hops around our suburban/exburban area (especially limiting some of our travel due to COVID cutbacks), but have no problem doing round trips in the NE IL/SE WI area ranging up to mid 200mi and some nearly 300mi trips including a reserve, on one full charge in our 2019. Level 2 charging has never left us worrying about having enough time to get back to a suitable SOC fairly quickly. I know some people are too strapped to afford the additional purchase/install costs of level 2, but after dropping around 30g’s, the extra expense was a suitably small sacrifice. We haven’t had to charge anywhere else, yet, but are considering a road-trip to LA & back.
 
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