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Nobody needs a second TV, but most have two or more...
Really? We have never had more than one. When the kids were little, my wife made a cover for ours, like you put over a parakeet cage. The cover came off at specific times. I have been in homes where the thing is on all the time, blasting background noise. I would go mad in a house like that.

I remember when TV screens weren't everywhere in public, like a dystopian Sci-Fi movie. Several years ago I had to spend some time at medical facilities, and the constant streaming of daytime TV and ads, in the waiting rooms, was worse the the illness.

When I go to the dentist, I tell them to turn off the TV. I'd rather listen to the drill.
 

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Really? We have never had more than one. When the kids were little, my wife made a cover for ours, like you put over a parakeet cage. The cover came off at specific times.
I also only have one TV in the house. But I agree with shrox - most people I know have two or more. Even my mother, who lives alone, has two TVs in her house.
 

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I also only have one TV in the house. But I agree with shrox - most people I know have two or more. Even my mother, who lives alone, has two TVs in her house.
Agreed. It’s increasingly common to see 2-3 sets in a home nowadays. One in the living room, one in the basement, and one in the bedroom
 

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This week our county has its yearly electronic waste disposal day. With COVID-19, we figure the pile can sit for another year.

I see a a 60 year old Milwaukee 3/8" drill, a 25 year old digital watch, a 23 year old digital scale that calculated body mass index, our two 17 year old flip phones, a 12 year old CO monitor, my 10 year old PC tower, two computer mice, one 10 year old PV powered calculator, a 5 year old 900 watt microwave oven, a 3 year old 1200 watt toaster oven, and four 2 year old Cree LED bulbs replaced under lifetime warranty.

Tell me again how technology going to prevent ecological collapse?
 

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This week our county has its yearly electronic waste disposal day. With COVID-19, we figure the pile can sit for another year.

I see a a 60 year old Milwaukee 3/8" drill, a 25 year old digital watch, a 23 year old digital scale that calculated body mass index, our two 17 year old flip phones, a 12 year old CO monitor, my 10 year old PC tower, two computer mice, one 10 year old PV powered calculator, a 5 year old 900 watt microwave oven, a 3 year old 1200 watt toaster oven, and four 2 year old Cree LED bulbs replaced under lifetime warranty.

Tell me again how technology going to prevent ecological collapse?
Yeah, the idea that we can somehow consume our way out of this problem is laughable.
 

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Yeah, the idea that we can somehow consume our way out of this problem is laughable.
Thirty five years ago, we bought a yellow plastic hardhat with a solar cell on the front, and a little brushed DC motor powered red propeller on top, for our son. The west coast techie/new age catalog outfit that we bought it from, sent us a full color, glossy catalog, every month for years. One of my favorites was a bag of rocks you could buy to replace detergent in your washing machine...making all your cloths stone washed. I took to calling it the "What can I buy to save the planet?" catalog. :cry:
 

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My youngest in his late twenties has no TV. That's the current trend with streaming content.

Yes. Both of our kids now watch everything online, mostly on their phones. Part of that is due to their, no free time, lives. They catch snatchers of stuff while walking to the store, or sitting on the crapper. I still remember the 40 hour week, and discussions of what Americans would do with all their free time, when we went to the 20 hour week that our amazing system would bring us.
 

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Huh, I didn’t realize that home level 2 charging was so unfashionable. Count me among the outliers. For me and my wife, it was a no-brainer, to give us an added level of convenience and confidence to accommodate normal AND unexpected travel needs. We use the Bolt for short hops around our suburban/exburban area (especially limiting some of our travel due to COVID cutbacks), but have no problem doing round trips in the NE IL/SE WI area ranging up to mid 200mi and some nearly 300mi trips including a reserve, on one full charge in our 2019. Level 2 charging has never left us worrying about having enough time to get back to a suitable SOC fairly quickly. I know some people are too strapped to afford the additional purchase/install costs of level 2, but after dropping around 30g’s, the extra expense was a suitably small sacrifice. We haven’t had to charge anywhere else, yet, but are considering a road-trip to LA & back.
I believe many of you are missing my point. There are new EV owners who think that it's not possible to charge their cars unless they install an L2 charger. So they drop upwards of $1K purchasing a new EVSE and dropping in a new electrical line without ever giving consideration to the fact that there are other options. So, instead of making a reasoned choice to install an L2, out of FOMO it gets done automatically.

We had a case here with a new owner asking about L2. It was determined that their average daily use of a Bolt was 12 miles per day. IIRC they invested in a Juice Box 40 and an electrical line. I find that to be a kneejerk reaction because the circumstances of use justifies only plugging in the OEM EVSE into a 120V wall socket for charging 3 hours each night.

I think some of you L2 folks should try the experiment of using only L1 for a month and see exactly how many times you actually need that L2 connection. I have both with my L2 shared with an active dryer line. So, I only use L2 when I actually need it as I have to swap cables to charge with it. Most months it gets zero usage. And I drive a sub 100 mile EV.

All I've ever said to new owners is try using L1 before making any decisions. Just don't automatically assume that you will be lacking unless you purchase and install an L2 immediately. I think that it's important to differentiate between necessity and convenience. But if everyone does an automatic L2 install upon purchase, they never get to make a choice.

It's crucial as we move forward to point this out. With Bolt prices both new and used dropping like a rock, there will be more and more new uninformed owners coming here for information. Please don't just tell them how you feel about L2. Give them the facts and suggest that they try different options before making a decision.

That is all...

ga2500ev
 

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Really? We have never had more than one. When the kids were little, my wife made a cover for ours, like you put over a parakeet cage. The cover came off at specific times. I have been in homes where the thing is on all the time, blasting background noise. I would go mad in a house like that.

I remember when TV screens weren't everywhere in public, like a dystopian Sci-Fi movie. Several years ago I had to spend some time at medical facilities, and the constant streaming of daytime TV and ads, in the waiting rooms, was worse the the illness.

When I go to the dentist, I tell them to turn off the TV. I'd rather listen to the drill.
We have one, I didn't have one when I was single, looking at computer screens at work was enough...
 

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I believe many of you are missing my point. There are new EV owners who think that it's not possible to charge their cars unless they install an L2 charger. So they drop upwards of $1K purchasing a new EVSE and dropping in a new electrical line without ever giving consideration to the fact that there are other options. So, instead of making a reasoned choice to install an L2, out of FOMO it gets done automatically.

We had a case here with a new owner asking about L2. It was determined that their average daily use of a Bolt was 12 miles per day. IIRC they invested in a Juice Box 40 and an electrical line. I find that to be a kneejerk reaction because the circumstances of use justifies only plugging in the OEM EVSE into a 120V wall socket for charging 3 hours each night.

I think some of you L2 folks should try the experiment of using only L1 for a month and see exactly how many times you actually need that L2 connection. I have both with my L2 shared with an active dryer line. So, I only use L2 when I actually need it as I have to swap cables to charge with it. Most months it gets zero usage. And I drive a sub 100 mile EV.

All I've ever said to new owners is try using L1 before making any decisions. Just don't automatically assume that you will be lacking unless you purchase and install an L2 immediately. I think that it's important to differentiate between necessity and convenience. But if everyone does an automatic L2 install upon purchase, they never get to make a choice.

It's crucial as we move forward to point this out. With Bolt prices both new and used dropping like a rock, there will be more and more new uninformed owners coming here for information. Please don't just tell them how you feel about L2. Give them the facts and suggest that they try different options before making a decision.

That is all...

ga2500ev
Yes, this is a valid point. I went five years with my Chevy Volt before wired for and purchased a 240 V L2 AC unit. The reason was, with only a 40 mile range, the Volt would charge up overnight, even on 120 V. The shift for me happened when I bought my Bolt EV. Arriving in Northern California with <25% battery, it would take me the entire weekend to charge, and I still wouldn't have a full battery by the time I was ready to leave on Sunday (especially if I did any driving at all when I was up there). But I recognize that I am not a typical user. When I'm in Northern California, getting groceries is >80 miles roundtrip. Any additional shopping, dining, etc. easily bumps that up to >150 miles roundtrip. In that case, 120 V L1 AC charging just doesn't cut it.

Others, however, might not have any such need. If you drive 40 to 60 miles on average per day, 120 V AC is perfectly acceptable. The one condition I would add, though, is that the 120 V socket needs to be installed well, and the EVSE needs to be plugged in securely. The 240 V sockets and plugs are simply more robust with better seating, and for prolonged use, they are far more rugged.
 

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All I've ever said to new owners is try using L1 before making any decisions. Just don't automatically assume that you will be lacking unless you purchase and install an L2 immediately. I think that it's important to differentiate between necessity and convenience. But if everyone does an automatic L2 install upon purchase, they never get to make a choice.
I advocate the same thing. It's especially easy with coworkers, since we have ample L2 chargers at work. A few early Model 3 buyers were shocked when I suggested this to them - they had never heard it before. Tesla was ready to sell and install for them a 48A / 240V charger. They later thanked me for saving them thousands of dollars. They get by just fine with L1 at home and L2 at work. Of course, the supercharging network helps - lots of places to quickly top up on a weekend if there is a change of plans.
 

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The 240 V sockets and plugs are simply more robust with better seating, and for prolonged use, they are far more rugged.
I started with 120V when I got my Bolt. But immediately had issues with a bad ground fault circuit protection on my garage's outlets. So adding a 240V circuit to an existing 100 amp subpanel in the garage was not much harder than repairing the bad GFCI. Since I was at Home Depot getting parts, got the adapters to convert the charge cord that came with the car to 240 thanks to this forum. Best part, was never having to tell the car to use the 12 amps setting ever again.
 

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I started with 120V when I got my Bolt. But immediately had issues with a bad ground fault circuit protection on my garage's outlets. So adding a 240V circuit to an existing 100 amp subpanel in the garage was not much harder than repairing the bad GFCI. Since I was at Home Depot getting parts, got the adapters to convert the charge cord that came with the car to 240 thanks to this forum. Best part, was never having to tell the car to use the 12 amps setting ever again.
This is yet another option that can work especially if a 240V is already available.

In the end I blame car manufactures (outside of Tesla and a couple of others). It would be trivial to add a low/high power switch along with automatic voltage detection to make the OEM EVSE a capable, effective, portable charger. Put a 6-30 plug on the end of it along with a 120V adapter. With 2 voltages and 2 power settings it would be possible to charge from 120V @ 8amps all the way up to 240V @ 24amps without having to get another EVSE. I've never figured out why EVs don't come with more capable EVSEs other than manufacturers cheaping out on the charge cable.

ga2500ev
 

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This is yet another option that can work especially if a 240V is already available.

In the end I blame car manufactures (outside of Tesla and a couple of others). It would be trivial to add a low/high power switch along with automatic voltage detection to make the OEM EVSE a capable, effective, portable charger. Put a 6-30 plug on the end of it along with a 120V adapter. With 2 voltages and 2 power settings it would be possible to charge from 120V @ 8amps all the way up to 240V @ 24amps without having to get another EVSE. I've never figured out why EVs don't come with more capable EVSEs other than manufacturers cheaping out on the charge cable.

ga2500ev
They are cheaping out for sure, but I also think they don't know any better. Most of the people who design, market, and sell EVs have never driven one themselves. That in itself leads to a huge disconnect between the product and the user.
 

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They are cheaping out for sure, but I also think they don't know any better. Most of the people who design, market, and sell EVs have never driven one themselves. That in itself leads to a huge disconnect between the product and the user.
Judging by recent videos, GM engineers and Marketing folks do have experience driving Bolts.

What they should probably do is contract with Clipper Creek (their current EVSE supplier) to make a unit with interchangeable plugs that automatically senses the source current. Supply 5-15p, 14-50p as standard and offer optional plugs for a fee.

It cuts into CC aftermarket sales, but OEM sales probably would give them higher volumes and margins than consumer direct sales.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Judging by recent videos, GM engineers and Marketing folks do have experience driving Bolts.

What they should probably do is contract with Clipper Creek (their current EVSE supplier) to make a unit with interchangeable plugs that automatically senses the source current. Supply 5-15p, 14-50p as standard and offer optional plugs for a fee.

It cuts into CC aftermarket sales, but OEM sales probably would give them higher volumes and margins than consumer direct sales.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But the Bolt's OEM EVSE hasn't changed since the car was introduced in 2016. Back then, 4 or 5 years ago when the decision was made, how many of those folks drove an EV? I suspect that every generation will get better at the "basics" as more people drive and understand EVs.

Then again, as EVs become common, does it still make sense to provide L2 portable charge cords? Most customers will already have an L2 solution at home and don't need a new one with every car. I wouldn't be surprised if, ten years from now, new EVs don't come even with L1 EVSEs.
 

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Yeah, the idea that we can somehow consume our way out of this problem is laughable.
What drives me nuts (before I stopped watching commercials) was seeing all the new "disposable this" and "disposable that" items. I don't need a toilet scrubber where the head pops off so I can flush it down the crapper! Not only is it a huge waste of resources, it is not "really" disposable, just because you can flush something doesn't mean it will makes it's way through the sewer system without causing trouble.

Keith
 

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So, I only use L2 when I actually need it as I have to swap cables to charge with it. Most months it gets zero usage. And I drive a sub 100 mile EV.
PM me if you are interested in my old Dryer Buddy. I only used it back when I was renting and couldn't install a dedicated circuit.

Keith
 
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