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Discussion Starter #1
I completely understand if this gets taken down, because I don't know what we are allowed to link here. I am working on a cost of ownership worksheet that people can insert information about an ICE car and the EV they are thinking of buying. I have a link to the google sheet document I am working on. You can't edit, but can save it as an excel or make a copy of the google doc if you have gmail. It is an early version and if people like this idea I will make it more robust with added options and multiple financing scenarios. I didn't include maintenance, taxes and registration fees, and many other costs of owning a vehicle. I also included local rebates, down payment, trade-in (didn't know how to handle this), and level 2 charger cost into the first year of ownership. If you have any suggestions please let me know!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hnL1gN-QJ4XE3VguPsF9xz39wX036fI8zlQNLPQskGo/edit?usp=sharing
 

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Thanks for sharing and it will be an interesting exercise for those who complete it. Just don't expect the new EV to show a profit if all options are actually evaluated.

We did the math on a less-detailed model and quantified that which has always been true. If one wants a new car, just buy it and don't look back. There's no spread sheet which can show a cost-justification for an individual buying a new car. First year depreciation alone puts the purchase forever upside down.

To really prove the various net cost transportation options in addition to just new ICE vs. new EV, also consider a column for the costs of continuing to drive the currently owned ICE/hybrid/EV.

Bottom line - we did the calcs and knew going in we'll never drive the Bolt enough miles to make it an economical buy. Those paid-for ICEs in the garage would always have a net lower cost. However, an EV is the obvious choice for our everyday urban use; we spent the money and have enjoyed the Bolt every time we drive it. In the now-sub-freezing weather, the Bolt will be even better; to have a warm, preconditioned ride and know we're not wearing out the cold, polluting ICE when making our short trips. Where's that value-added in the spread sheet?

jack vines
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for sharing and it will be an interesting exercise for those who complete it. Just don't expect the new EV to show a profit if all options are actually evaluated.

We did the math on a less-detailed model and quantified that which has always been true. If one wants a new car, just buy it and don't look back. There's no spread sheet which can show a cost-justification for an individual buying a new car. First year depreciation alone puts the purchase forever upside down.

To really prove the various net cost transportation options in addition to just new ICE vs. new EV, also consider a column for the costs of continuing to drive the currently owned ICE/hybrid/EV.

Bottom line - we did the calcs and knew going in we'll never drive the Bolt enough miles to make it an economical buy. Those paid-for ICEs in the garage would always have a net lower cost. However, an EV is the obvious choice for our everyday urban use; we spent the money and have enjoyed the Bolt every time we drive it. In the now-sub-freezing weather, the Bolt will be even better; to have a warm, preconditioned ride and know we're not wearing out the cold, polluting ICE when making our short trips. Where's that value-added in the spread sheet?

jack vines
The main reason I bought my Bolt is that I drive 25,000 miles plus per year in one of the most polluted areas in the United States, the Central Valley. I have a long commute and thought it was my responsibility to buy an EV to try to do my part to reduce the pollution. For me it will save me lots of money, especially after the car is paid off. The saving will be even more when I get solar next year. However, I am not a typical user so my numbers reflect that.
 

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You are pretty generous to the ICE in the sheet - a Golf has a high mpg, and additionally I think few cars get their rated mpg (whereas with the Bolt most are getting > rated miles/kWh). Most people buy way more car than they actually need (SUV's) for that once a year trip or whatever, nice thing about BEV's is it forces you into a car that more likely is what you need (rather than what you think you want)
 

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If my Level 2 Home EVSE cost $850 instead of the $399 + $51 it did, I would be eating peanut butter for a looong time. Nevertheless, I agree that you cannot justify the purchase on cost alone. But what price can you put on having the most fun driving that you have ever had?
 

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If my Level 2 Home EVSE cost $850 instead of the $399 + $51 it did, I would be eating peanut butter for a looong time.
Too bad your utility didn't offer a free charger. Mine was $163 net for the install. You could have had a few surf 'n turfs with the savings.

But what price can you put on having the most fun driving that you have ever had?
Agree, the Bolt is day-in-day-out driving fun. OTOH, I've had a few drives in ICEs which were literally orgasmic. Then, the same car in traffic, in maintenance, in depreciation, or at the gas pump was a Fleet enema.

jack vines
 

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I made an Excel version of this back in 2014 before I got my LEAF.

I forgot to take into account difference in insurance rates. While the cost of the car after rebates is reasonable, the insurance I paid was based on MSRP. Compared to the ICE beater I replaced, the upcharge on my insurance to the $29k MSRP LEAF was close to $70/month!

That plus the collapse in the price of gasoline at the end of 2014 and my projected savings were shot to heck!
 

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The main reason I bought my Bolt is that I drive 25,000 miles plus per year in one of the most polluted areas in the United States, the Central Valley. I have a long commute and thought it was my responsibility to buy an EV to try to do my part to reduce the pollution. For me it will save me lots of money, especially after the car is paid off. The saving will be even more when I get solar next year. However, I am not a typical user so my numbers reflect that.
Kudos for your praiseworthy actions.

IMHO,

We all need to take some level of personal responsibility for the welfare of our communities. Reducing everything to dollars and cents is a dis-service to civic obligations and denigrates the bonds amongst us. "I am enriched when you are benefited." Some kid will have less severe asthma, and someone else may have a less severe heart attack from the PM 2.5 particles they had to breathe in, because of your actions. Reducing our ownership of an EV to just how much we lose/gain in terms of personal finances does not deal with the larger goods, nor what in economics are called 'externalities.' An externality is when you pollute the H&4($! in some place and when you count the economic costs you fail to include the costs to your community because they are "external" to your own narrow economics.

If you have not seen this, you may want to read the ultra-famous article on the Tragedy of the Commons.* That is when, because of a short-term personal advantage, we as a group fail to do something that is obviously in the common good. p.s. this was not Fake Science.

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* Hardin, G (1968). "The Tragedy of the Commons". Science. 162 (3859): 1243–1248. doi:10.1126/science.162.3859.1243. PMID 5699198.
 

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Here's a real life example of how much better an EV can be over ICE. Granted it's an extreme example of high mileage which will always be in the favor of the EV. In a nutshell, used as livery, the net costs are about 12% in maintenance and fuel costs of what a comparable ICE would be. To be fair, their electricity was free so it might be realistically 25%-30%.
http://www.tesloop.com/blog/2017/8/30/tesla-model-s-hits-300k-miles-with-less-than-11k-maintenance-costs
"During the first 300,000 miles the total combined maintenance and fuel costs of the Tesla Model S were $10,492, with a total of 12 days in the shop. Of these costs, $6,900 was scheduled maintenance and $3500 was headlight damage due to driving through deep water. Had this been an Mercedes S class, the scheduled routine maintenance and fuel would have been $86,000 ($52,000 maintenance and $36,000* fuel) with 112 days of servicing, or for a Lincoln Town Car $70k,000 ($28,000 maintenance and $42,000** fuel) with around 100 days of servicing."
 

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My Tesla didn’t cost me anything in maintenence and no repairs were needed.

Just plugged in at night for 3 years. Skipped the yearly $600 yearly maintence as the sales guy told me it wasn’t really necessary. Tires held up too. May have replaced wiper blades but that is about it.

Hope I have the same luck with my Bolt :)
 

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"Hope I have the same luck with my Bolt"
I have all the confidence you will. If my Leaf is any indication, I will be thrilled if my next EV matches it's lack of maintenance. Like you, only the rear wiper blade and new tires in 50+k miles. I just hope that as the electronics become more complex, that doesn't undo all the other advantages. That does concern me with the Tesla but they seem to have come to terms with the added complexity of falcon doors and self presenting door handles have their drawbacks.
 
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