[Stretch44875]

I live in northern Ohio, and drive 3 hours a day. Going to install a diesel parking heater to stay warm and not drain battery on those frigid winter days, and keep range for my daily 160-180 mile drive.



So far, I've found a shop in Canada that installs them, hoping to hear back from email I sent.


From what little research done so far, cabin heater is separate from battery and rest of car, and is coolant. So mechanical side is pretty simple, diesel heater is coolant heater, and goes inline with current electric heater. Electrical side maybe as simple as relay that turns on when electric heater does. Not sure if I should disconnect the electric heater, or it simply won't turn on because coolant will be heated by diesel heater. Also would be nice to know what temp electric heater keeps coolant at.


Found one that was recommended, but there are cheaper ones. Espar D5E on ebay, about 1100.00 Can't post a link, post count is too low, so I'm not trustworthy.


See how this works out,
Dennis

 

[gern_blanston]

Wow. Where to start... Aren't the Espars combustion heaters?
Like, using fuel from the vehicle's fuel tank?

 

[pwnz0rz]

I can't tell you how *much* I am interested in how this experience goes for you. I've half-arsedly looked into the same thing myself. The inefficiency of the resistance heater in the Bolt is just a travesty for cold-weather performance. Aside from the width/comfort of the driver's seat (more a big-arse issue than engineering methinks!), the heater is my biggest complaint with an otherwise wonferful EV.

 

[redpoint5]

Just spitballin' here, but what about a 100 watt heat lamp, mounted sturdy somewhere, and aimed at the driver's seat?

Or, you could put a relatively low power heater in the footwell area. I'd think 3-500 watts would be plenty.

$1,100 for a heater sounds like quite the investment.

There is always heated jackets, pants, socks, etc.

Of course, none of this keeps the windshield clear of condensation.

 

[DaV8or]

This project is going to require some serious research first. You need to know precisely how the Bolt's HVAC system works and confirm without any doubt that the heater system is isolated from the battery thermal management system. I'm not so sure it is. I was under the impression that the resistance heater for cabin heat is also utilized to warm the battery pack.

In addition, you need to know for sure there isn't some regulator, or valving for the heater coolant circuit so the aux heater can force the liquid around. You also need to know if when you use the fan without the HVAC system on, does the air blow by the heater core or not? It may be outside air ducted around the heater core in this case the diesel heater would be effectively rendered useless.

I'm sure the components will fit under the hood and you could have a custom fuel tank fabricated to fit in the "spare tire" well in the back. You might actually be better off with a boat cabin heater like the one below. It's the same idea, but only heats air and blows it in. It has nothing to do with liquid other than the fuel to run it.

 

[gern_blanston]

So you're going to put a separate diesel fuel tank in the car to run the heater?

 

[Packard V8]

The inefficiency of the resistance heater in the Bolt is just a travesty for cold-weather performance.

Almost sixty years after the Corvair and buyers are still wanting to install fossil fuel heaters in Chevrolets. The first three years, gas heaters were optional in Corvairs. When they went to hot air exchangers, most northern tier dealers installed VW gas heaters to get some BTUs into the Corvairs. At least, there was a gasoline tank already in place.

I live in northern Ohio, and drive 3 hours a day. Going to install a diesel parking heater to stay warm and not drain battery on those frigid winter days, and keep range for my daily 160-180 mile drive.

As to putting a diesel heater in a Bolt, never thought this old hot rodder would be saying a modification is the wrong way to go, but in this case, maybe the Bolt is not the best horse for this course. Something just not right about burning fossil fuel to stay warm in an electric car. In this case, maybe go with the Volt?

jack vines

 

[esa92101]

I would first figure out (or test) how much actual range loss would pre-heating the cabin with the electric heater cause. I say this because I have a friend in Finland with a Model S and he preheats his cabin with the phone app all the time and says the effect on range is very minimal (contrary to instinct).

 

[Stretch44875]

Battery has its own heater and coolant loop. Yes, I would install small diesel tank. This is already being done at Canada shop. With the long drive, defrosting windshield, and driving through countless snowstorms, seems like the best option for heat. After driving bolt part of last winter, heater has a big effect on range. Electric is very efficient for driving, but not for heating. I'm seeing figures of .2 L per hour using diesel to heat.

 

[GlenandhisBolt1!]

Just give up on all of this: it's such a bad idea. All of this stuff about a diesel or gas heating system is dangerous: fire hazard, carbon monoxide hazard, lots of money. Of course, you will likely be voiding the Bolt's warranty too.

Simply plug in your Bolt at night and let the built-in battery conditioning system do it's job. Heating the cabin air during use doesn't use a huge amount of power: perhaps a few kW, which is not much when compared to what the drive motor uses.

One of the biggest factors in loss of range at low temperatures is related to the drive battery itself: it simply isn't as efficient at low temperatures. Adding this incredibly dangerous heating system isn't going to change that.

 

[Packard V8]

Adding this incredibly dangerous heating system isn't going to change that.

These hydrocarbon heaters have been in use for more than a hundred without killing their users too often.

However, it's just a bad idea for reasons other than being unsafe.

jack vines

 

[Stretch44875]

Incredibly dangerous.... Yet hundred thousand semis use it.

 

[redpoint5]

Yeah, sounds dumb to me.

$1,100 can buy a used gasser, and the waste heat can be used to heat the cabin. Retrofitting a diesel heater to the Bolt makes no sense at all. If the car isn't making the commute in the winter, then it isn't the right vehicle for the job.

Electric is extremely efficient for heat. The problem is that the Bolt battery holds a fraction of the energy that a fuel tank does. It's the inefficiency of ICE vehicles that makes cabin heat essentially a free byproduct.

 

[hatchy]

Letsse, boating/semi market product with decades of development and testing behind it. Sounds like a win to me. If it does what needs to be done. Personally at $1200 I'd be looking for something cheaper first, but seems knee jerk to rule it out completely.

Diesel is dangerous? Any concentrated energy storage is going to have risks. If it burns diesel, its going to burn a lot cleaner than a combustion diesel engine does.

Thermal storage for thermal-electric generation seems to work ok, one would think thermal-thermal would be much easier than that. Heat up a bag of rocks inside your house with cheap natural gas, then plunk it down in your back seat. May not be weight efficient enough.. maybe a zeolite water drip setup that sits on your passenger seat? There has got to be a better thermal-thermal way to do this.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4613-1375-5_46

Or maybe something as simple as two $150 6v forklift batteries in your trunk powering a small electric heater. Then charge it back up every night with a standard 12v charger.

 

[DaV8or]

Battery has its own heater and coolant loop. Yes, I would install small diesel tank. This is already being done at Canada shop. With the long drive, defrosting windshield, and driving through countless snowstorms, seems like the best option for heat. After driving bolt part of last winter, heater has a big effect on range. Electric is very efficient for driving, but not for heating. I'm seeing figures of .2 L per hour using diesel to heat.

Cool. Please post back with pictures and a performance review. :nerd:

 

[Sean Nelson]

In cold weather I just use an electric cabin heater. I put it into the car and plug it in about a half-hour before I leave and by the time I'm ready to go the cabin is nice and warm. This eliminates the large battery draw of initially heating the cabin and all its interior surfaces - once that's been done it takes a lot less power to maintain the temperature.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/little-buddy-120v-car-warmer-0303405p.html

 

[psyflyjohn]

Coming from an RV backgroung, I would consider a small propane heater, like Mr. Buddy. Readily available from Amazon. You can use disposable cartridges or a small supply tank of 1 gallon.

 

[DaV8or]

Coming from an RV backgroung, I would consider a small propane heater, like Mr. Buddy. Readily available from Amazon. You can use disposable cartridges or a small supply tank of 1 gallon.

I'm not sure about that one. Concerns I would have are-

• Depleting oxygen and breathing CO exhaust in a small unvented cabin.
• Rigging it so that it doesn't tip over and shut off.
• Where to put it so that the heat doesn't damage any plastic interior parts.

The last two are solvable I'm sure, but the first I can't think of any good solutions. His one way drive is an hour and a half and the cabin of the Bolt is pretty small. Likely the internal oxygen depletion safety valve would trigger at some point during the journey and shut the unit off. Then he would have to stop, vent the car (letting cold air in) and restart. Then there is the real possibility of showing up at work every morning with a headache. If for some reason the safety valve doesn't function properly, you end up driving off into oblivion.

 

[redpoint5]

Does the Bolt have pre-heating? Could save a lot of energy just doing the initial warmup of the HVAC fluid from the grid.

I like the idea of bringing stored heat into the cabin, but the main problem is probably window defrosting.

 

[bxd20]

Just give up on all of this: it's such a bad idea. All of this stuff about a diesel or gas heating system is dangerous: fire hazard, carbon monoxide hazard, lots of money. Of course, you will likely be voiding the Bolt's warranty too.

Simply plug in your Bolt at night and let the built-in battery conditioning system do it's job. Heating the cabin air during use doesn't use a huge amount of power: perhaps a few kW, which is not much when compared to what the drive motor uses.

One of the biggest factors in loss of range at low temperatures is related to the drive battery itself: it simply isn't as efficient at low temperatures. Adding this incredibly dangerous heating system isn't going to change that.

A lot of truth in this post.

I drive a Volt, and have gone through 4 winters here in northern Ohio. I've experimented with heavy, warm clothing, and microwavable heating pads, so I can do my commute without any cabin heat. The difference in range between using cabin heat and not using cabin heat was NOT much. Most of the extra kWh of energy were going into the BMS to keep the battery at an optimal temperature. I have no doubt that the same can be said for the Bolt.

If you're thinking of using the diesel heater because of $$$ savings, please don't. Use a 110V aux heater while the car is still in the garage (like the one linked above from Canadian Tire); pre-condition; use warmer clothes. And then if you need to, just stop at a charging station on your commute.

If you can't make your commute in the winter with the Bolt at all, and there are no charging stations, I'd put your efforts into having one installed at your destination.

And if none of that pans out, sorry to say, but you should either buy a clunker for the deep freeze in Ohio (which is only from around New Year's to about Valentine's Day most years); or trade the Bolt for a Volt.