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Good grief, there's already too much confusion over "Level 1" and "Level 2" with respect to AC and DC chargers. Let's keep the word "Level" away from DC chargers as much as possible and just identify them by their power rating. Is "50kW DC charger" any harder to say than "Level 2 DC charger"? No, and it's a lot more informative.

I realize that labels like 50kW can be misleading because of the interaction between the amperage limitation on the charger and the voltage limitation on the car - but it gives you at least as good an idea of the class of charger as "Level 2" does, and it's a LOT less prone to misunderstanding.
Yes, that would work too. I just think that to lump all DC charging together as a "non-existent" Level 3 designation is making the situation worse. But I am also hoping that PlugShare will have different color icons for DC Level 1 and 2 EVSE. Keeping them all orange, as your system would necessitate, would make visual ID differentiation impossible. PlugShare does allow filtering by four power levels, although few stations are marked to so filter. No system will be perfect, but I favor correlation with SAE standards.
 

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The (y)is the common response of someone who does not yet own one. Once you do, you find most of your objections are outweighed, or disappear.
Most of all, a vehicle represents mobility. Anything that reduces mobility compared with alternatives will be a definite issue for many people. Like it or not, an EV does represent a reduction in mobility. There are some areas where I really can't go with my Bolt: there is no charging of any level available. There are quite a few areas locally where I hesitate to go because of the absence of fast chargers. Most of the time there is no impact, but there does remain the irritating knowing that choosing an EV has reduced my mobility. If that doesn't apply to you and where you live, that's great. For many others it is still the case. Maybe in 5 years that won't be true, but it is now. We might as well own up to it.
 

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Yes, that would work too. I just think that to lump all DC charging together as a "non-existent" Level 3 designation is making the situation worse. But I am also hoping that PlugShare will have different color icons for DC Level 1 and 2 EVSE. Keeping them all orange, as your system would necessitate, would make visual ID differentiation impossible. PlugShare does allow filtering by four power levels, although few stations are marked to so filter. No system will be perfect, but I favor correlation with SAE standards.
"Chargeway" shows stations with color to designate what the work with (CCS is Green, CHAdeMO is Blue, Tesla is Red) along with a number designating speed with 4 being 50 KW, Superchargers are a 6, and Electrify America 350 KW stations are a 7.

Currently the app isn't that good, but I have hopes for its future.

Keith
 

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No, they really don’t work for everyone yet. That’s just reality. I own one and love it, but what works for me may not work for another.
At least with current DCFC deployment in upstate NY, the Bolt would not have been an option for me as my only vehicle. Even a Tesla Model 3 LR would barely have been sufficient.

It's great as a primary vehicle, but I'm still going to need the Subaru for when it's snowing hard, for long trips, and for when I need the cargo space.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Speaking of colour schemes, I've been thinking about getting a vinyl transfer vehicle wrap for my Bolt... maybe a great big lightning bolt on both sides? 1) to find it in the parking lot amid the 10 thousand other small silver-gray hatchbacks, and 2) to encourage people to notice and ask questions...
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Most interesting. AND...a big issue (at least where I live) is that there are no Tesla dealers or service centers all that close to me. That's just a bit of a turn-off. The service center also gets pretty bad reviews from people, somewhat echoing your thoughts on 'customer service'. Hate to generalize, of course, but just going by what people have said about the service center I'd probably wind up using.
That was also a big factor for me. I did consider the Mitsibishi PHEV Outlander, but the dealership was a day's travel away. And besides, those hybrids are so complex -- like two cars' worth of gizmos in one chassis. Looked briefly at BMW's "i" but it was very expensive and the dealership was a day's travel away. By that I mean, two days round trip, an overnight excursion.

Then there was the Bolt, with a dealership only half a day's travel away, and a certified mechanic right there, and cars on the lot that I could look at, and a test drive. So that was about half the decision. The other half was the initial test drive I took in a friend's Bolt -- he had one of the first to be sold in Canada -- and how delighted he was with it after a couple of years of regular use. He drives more miles yearly than I do (by a wide margin) and had no range issues. So that was it: word of mouth recommendation from someone I know and trust, 2 different test drives, and support/maintenance in my regular shopping town.

Tesla was out of my price range anyway, but the remoteness of repair and warranty service would have ruled it out even if it had been affordable.
 

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One problem with EVs now is that there's just so few choices and the concept with anything innovative is that the first buyers are expected to be "beta" testers. Like it or not GM doesn't have a good reputation for reliability anyway among those of us who've never owned a GM. I'm sure they're far more reliable than they used to be (they don't have keys anymore) but they're still in the middle of the pack overall as a make according to Consumer Reports. CRs reliability report on the Bolt however doesn't make sense, as they are highly ranked in all categories except "in-vehicle electronics" which gets the middle rating yet the vehicle as a whole is only 3 out of 5 on estimated reliability. It's been decades since I've had a car breakdown on the road and my current cars are a 2002 Honda Civic with 199,000 miles and a 2009 Prius with 165,000 and neither has ever had a significant issue. The Prius drives like the GMs I've rented, you kind of herd it down the road and the Honda is so loud (mostly road noise) you can't talk to even people riding shotgun, let alone people in the back seat. Carbon footprint trumps everything at this point, so I guess I'll take a chance on a GM. At least it'll be quieter and drive better.
 

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Like it or not GM doesn't have a good reputation for reliability anyway among those of us who've never owned a GM. I'm sure they're far more reliable than they used to be,.... but they're still in the middle of the pack overall as a make according to Consumer Reports. CRs reliability report on the Bolt however doesn't make sense, as they are highly ranked in all categories except "in-vehicle electronics" which gets the middle rating yet the vehicle as a whole is only 3 out of 5 on estimated reliability.
Yeah, CR rankings have bothered me for a long time as they are publication reader survey based, not good analytical statistics. The survey population is self selected, and heavily influenced by the publication, it is a perfect feed-forward system.
The CR 2020 rankings are out, Acura has lower customer satisfaction and lower predicted reliability than chevy but slots one spot above chevy in the CR manufacturer ranking list, go figure.

The JD power vehicle dependability study is out too, it uses a statistically neutral population of 36,555 owners of 2017 vehicles. Chevy ranks well above average, Buick is the highest ranked mass market brand. Acura and Honda are below average and Toyota continues to have a well above average showing. Subaru is well below average in JD powers but tops the list in the CR survey, yeah that is some very biased data that CR has IMHO. I am not saying that JD P. is perfect, but based on my small sample of Subaru owners I know and all the very expensive issues they have had, the vehicles predicted reliability should definitely not be above average.
 

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Yeah, CR rankings have bothered me for a long time as they are publication reader survey based, not good analytical statistics. The survey population is self selected, and heavily influenced by the publication, it is a perfect feed-forward system.
The CR 2020 rankings are out, Acura has lower customer satisfaction and lower predicted reliability than chevy but slots one spot above chevy in the CR manufacturer ranking list, go figure.

The JD power vehicle dependability study is out too, it uses a statistically neutral population of 36,555 owners of 2017 vehicles. Chevy ranks well above average, Buick is the highest ranked mass market brand. Acura and Honda are below average and Toyota continues to have a well above average showing. Subaru is well below average in JD powers but tops the list in the CR survey, yeah that is some very biased data that CR has IMHO. I am not saying that JD P. is perfect, but based on my small sample of Subaru owners I know and all the very expensive issues they have had, the vehicles predicted reliability should definitely not be above average.
Consumer Reports is trash, at least when it comes to cars. I remember back in the 90's when there was a lot of "badge engineering" of Mitsubishi's. You would have two identical cars (Dodge Stealth and Mitsubishi 3000GT, or the Eagle Talon and Mitsubishi Eclipse) and the Japanese branded one would have significantly higher ratings than the one with the domestic badge. Same cars, built in the same factory by the same work force... but the Japanese one is better...

Keith
 
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