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Are they though? I mean, the inconveniences started with the first recall back in Nov. 2020, that's getting really close to a full year now and gm hasn't done anything to mitigate it from my perspective. In fact, they have added to the inconveniences over that time.
Ok, let's play a little game:
Let's say anyone of us just joined GM in Nov 2020 and were put in charge of this ordeal.
What would WE have done differently in order to fix this. For all the Bolt owners out there, past, present and future and also for the survival of the company?

Yes I'm inconvenienced, frustrated and pissed off but in the grand scheme of things, I think they're doing pretty well.

Edit: I'll answer my own question:
Open a special communication channel with the owners and keep them informed of all development (within reason) on a weekly basis. Of course today, no news is "private" so everything gets out, eventually (sooner than later).

2nd edit: I had a Honda Civic Hybrid 2008 and it too had a serious battery issue (severe degradation vs fire) and the way Honda treated us has turned me against them for the rest of my life. Compared to that, what GM is doing right now is absolutely awesome!
 

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Ok, let's play a little game:
Let's say anyone of us just joined GM in Nov 2020 and were put in charge of this ordeal.
What would WE have done differently in order to fix this. For all the Bolt owners out there, past, present and future and also for the survival of the company?

Yes I'm inconvenienced, frustrated and pissed off but in the grand scheme of things, I think they're doing pretty well.

Edit: I'll answer my own question:
Open a special communication channel with the owners and keep them informed of all development (within reason) on a weekly basis. Of course today, no news is "private" so everything gets out, eventually (sooner than later).

2nd edit: I had a Honda Civic Hybrid 2008 and it too had a serious battery issue (severe degradation vs fire) and the way Honda treated us has turned me against them for the rest of my life. Compared to that, what GM is doing right now is absolutely awesome!
All I've ever asked from this process gm put together was communication. Over 70+ days, numerous emails and voice mails, and I've got exactly 1 response (from someone not my EV Concierge). I asked for 30+ days about getting a rental car, calling my local dealership every couple of days (because they couldn't get answers from gm)... but I'm still without any resolution on a MSRP swap request from July and a rental car coverage since expanding the recall. They haven't done squat to communicate or help with the situation.

It's not hard to send mass emails, it's not hard to send auto responses back saying "we've received your request and are working on getting you an answer"... but it's mind boggling to just go silent and ignore customers. The communication has been sporadic and vague from the start.

How hard would it be to collect who wanted an EV as their swap and reach back out to those individuals when the stop sale order went out and say, "Here's your options... buyback or I can get you into a rental". Nope, nothing proactive on their part. They are the responsible party, and yet it has been left entirely on the consumer to fight for resolution.
 

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If GM does not add the extra inconveniences, then one could argue that GM wasn't showing any concern about the peoples' safety. If GM does add them, then owners are being put out. GM chose to do it anyway, despite this. Now, they have announced a plan to help offset some of that inconvenience WITHOUT placing people, and homes, and cars at extra risk. Nobody is telling you that GM handled this all perfectly from the start (clearly they did not) but in the here and now, there is no question that they are indeed trying to mitigate inconvenience.

They cannot fix their past mistakes. They can, however, try not to repeat them.
What is this plan to help offset some of that inconvenience? Seems like I missed something, or we don't view something in the same light.
 

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What is this plan to help offset some of that inconvenience? Seems like I missed something, or we don't view something in the same light.
There is a software update coming next month that will change the range limit to 80%. From there, if the battery passes it's testing, the full range can be returned, and the vehicle can go back to normal charging patterns.

I view being able to go back to using more range and parking inside as "less inconvenient".
 

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What I want to know is, what new things will be monitored, that are not being monitored with the latest software patch? They currently monitor 6 of the 10 modules for temperature, and the 96 cell group voltages, for 4 hours after charging. What else can they do?
Monitor and report to the OnStar mothership the deep discharge/full charge patterns, and flag them for priority replacement?
 

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Monitor and report to the OnStar mothership the deep discharge/full charge patterns, and flag them for priority replacement?
Except you aren't doing a full charge, when you are restricted to 80%. Is this the same OnStar that has told us everything is fine with our batteries, even when some are clearly defective per Torque Pro?
 

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Well, someone provided that 80% info to the Society of Automobile Engineers, not exactly a nobody in the automotive world.
 

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They most likely used the term "might" because while they have found some sort of anomaly that can be created within the battery prior to an actual fire
False. All the software did is identify some packs with poorly performing cells which had absolutely nothing to do with the fire-prone defective cells.
 

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Open a special communication channel with the owners and keep them informed of all development (within reason) on a weekly basis.
There is such a thing as too much communication. If GM gave us the minutes of every meeting they had on this subject then we'd be going crazy with all of the guessing, infighting and rabbit holes their own people must have gone down trying to get a handle on this thing. Ideally, we want them to only tell us what they know to be certain. They've already been criticized pretty heavily for making some statements that later turned out to be premature.

I think a lot of frustration has been periods where we haven't heard anything, but would it really be better to get a "be patient, we're still working on it" message every week?

I'm not saying that their communications have been ideal, but what I can tell you is that no matter what they do, some of us won't be happy with it.
 

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What I want to know is, what new things will be monitored, that are not being monitored with the latest software patch? They currently monitor 6 of the 10 modules for temperature, and the 96 cell group voltages, for 4 hours after charging. What else can they do?
They may have been able to characterize patterns of behaviour that they haven't yet incorporated into their algorithms. For example, they may be able to watch for the behaviour of individual cells under conditions of load. Or they may use higher sampling frequencies for particular cells (such as the highest and lowest voltage cells, or perhaps rotating high sampling rates across different cells over time) than they had before (there's a limit to the sampling rate but if you sample specific cells instead of all of them then you can sample more often).

It's all just speculation for us, we just have to assume that GM feels that there's value in this software because they're going to the expense of developing and deploying it.
 

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False. All the software did is identify some packs with poorly performing cells which had absolutely nothing to do with the fire-prone defective cells.
1) I am talking about the upcoming software update, not the previous one. GM is talking about removing charging restrictions and outdoor parking recommendations based on the results of this monitoring software, so there has to be SOMETHING new to it. I just wish I knew more about what it is.
2) What makes you think the cell imbalances found were not (in some cases at least) related to fire prone cells? Saying they had absolutely nothing to do with each other seems a bit of an overstatement.
 

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There is a software update coming next month that will change the range limit to 80%. From there, if the battery passes it's testing, the full range can be returned, and the vehicle can go back to normal charging patterns.

I view being able to go back to using more range and parking inside as "less inconvenient".
We definitely don't see that in the same light, I was aware of this and wondered if this is what you might be referencing.

Seeing as I can't operate within the guidelines today (90% to 70 miles) any software that hard limits the vehicle to 80% makes it 100% unusable for me... I can't make it to work and back home, let alone the other trips I've had to make over the last two months.

I elected not to get the first software limitation because at times, especially in the winter, I needed to bump up the charge limit so I could make my trips. With a hard limit in the software I'd be stranded on the side of the road short of my destination While I don't live in any area that one would call remote, my home to work commute on the highway is inside of a complete dead zone void of any level of public charging (120V, 240V or DC). I can charge at work, but under the rules from gm not at home. So I charge "full" at work, drive home, drive back to work and I'm usually at 30-50 miles range when charging to 90% currently (temps in the high 50s low 60s in the mornings). In another month (when this new software comes) I won't make it back and forth with only 80% charged, and even if it does charge up to 90% I'll have a tough time turning on the heat and making it to work.

Sure... it's supposed to work it's way back up to 100%, but how long is that going to take? There's no real information about how this is going to work, how long it's going to monitor, etc. so I can't take the risk.

I get my use case might be an outlier, and it's why I've asked for months about a rental car. I don't expect the solution to work for 100% of customers, but I do expect gm to put a plan in place for those which they can not address... this is the part they are failing at IMO.
 

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Seeing as I can't operate within the guidelines today (90% to 70 miles) any software that hard limits the vehicle to 80% makes it 100% unusable for me... I can't make it to work and back home, let alone the other trips I've had to make over the last two months.
Just because the solution won't help YOUR inconvenience doesn't mean that they aren't trying. And this is designed simply as a stopgap until batteries get replaced. I'm sorry to hear that it isn't going to help you.

I get my use case might be an outlier, and it's why I've asked for months about a rental car. I don't expect the solution to work for 100% of customers, but I do expect gm to put a plan in place for those which they can not address... this is the part they are failing at IMO.
This is a big deal to me. It is unfathomable to me that GM doesn't have a formal way of getting customer's in your spot into rental cars. I know there are a handful of dealers that are taking on themselves to help customers in situations like yours (I couldn't find the posts, but I recall at least two people on this thread mentioning a dealer was taking care of a long term rental for them), but they are hard to find. I would go so far as to say that this specifically is GM's biggest failure in responding to the fires.

On a different note, how long is your commute?
 

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What makes you think the cell imbalances found were not (in some cases at least) related to fire prone cells
Non-defective Li-Ion cells get imbalances all the time and need to be replaced. The lack of sensors on individual cells and accuracy of existing sensors in the Bolt make it impossible to detect the fire-prone defects, if it's even possible, which likely it is not. If detecting such critical defects was possible in the factory with precision instruments on individual cells, don't you think it would be done? Don't you think it would at least have been done fairly quickly to have identified the defects in the first place? Of course it would. To think that you could use the inaccurate sensors in the Bolt to do it, after assembly, is pure fantasy.
 

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Non-defective Li-Ion cells get imbalances all the time and need to be replaced. The lack of sensors on individual cells and accuracy of existing sensors in the Bolt make it impossible to detect the fire-prone defects, if it's even possible, which likely it is not. If detecting such critical defects was possible in the factory with precision instruments on individual cells, don't you think it would be done? Don't you think it would at least have been done fairly quickly to have identified the defects in the first place? Of course it would. To think that you could use the inaccurate sensors in the Bolt to do it, after assembly, is pure fantasy.
You kind of missed my point here. There are a number of reasons cells can become imbalanced. But you did not address my actual point. Are cells with these two physical defects more prone to imbalance? If so, then looking for imbalances in cells, while nowhere near a perfect solution, IS related to the fire risk. I honestly don't know if it is or not. But you dismissed my point without even considering what I was trying to say. That is not your usual MO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
If detecting such critical defects was possible in the factory with precision instruments on individual cells, don't you think it would be done?
The flip side to that point is, if it isn't possible to do anything, why are they releasing it?
Why not just say "we found the problem with manufacturing/QA and all new batteries are good"?

I think it is possible that they actually do have improved monitoring that they have developed, and while it might not be able to detect every bad situation, can detect some.

Which is really all that they are saying it can do...
 

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We definitely don't see that in the same light, I was aware of this and wondered if this is what you might be referencing.

Seeing as I can't operate within the guidelines today (90% to 70 miles) any software that hard limits the vehicle to 80% makes it 100% unusable for me... I can't make it to work and back home, let alone the other trips I've had to make over the last two months.

I elected not to get the first software limitation because at times, especially in the winter, I needed to bump up the charge limit so I could make my trips. With a hard limit in the software I'd be stranded on the side of the road short of my destination While I don't live in any area that one would call remote, my home to work commute on the highway is inside of a complete dead zone void of any level of public charging (120V, 240V or DC). I can charge at work, but under the rules from gm not at home. So I charge "full" at work, drive home, drive back to work and I'm usually at 30-50 miles range when charging to 90% currently (temps in the high 50s low 60s in the mornings). In another month (when this new software comes) I won't make it back and forth with only 80% charged, and even if it does charge up to 90% I'll have a tough time turning on the heat and making it to work.

Sure... it's supposed to work it's way back up to 100%, but how long is that going to take? There's no real information about how this is going to work, how long it's going to monitor, etc. so I can't take the risk.

I get my use case might be an outlier, and it's why I've asked for months about a rental car. I don't expect the solution to work for 100% of customers, but I do expect gm to put a plan in place for those which they can not address... this is the part they are failing at IMO.
Well, summer is over and winter is coming fast with the associated battery warming need - esp if parking outside the garage... If you can't charge overnight, does that mean we will be lining up at the DCFC daily? What a nightmare!
 
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