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What percent of people absolutely depend on L2 charging to complete their trip? 1%? Hardly anyone is brave or foolish enough to depend on free L2 charging to complete their trips, so the whole concept is mostly a gimmick to begin with.
Only once have I been "absolutely" dependent on L2 charging to complete a trip. It was a cold winter day (sub-zero F) and there wasn't a DCFC available (EA will soon remedy that). More often, L2 is hugely important, but not in the "absolute" sense. For example, I often visit Burlington VT. There is a DCFC just outside the city in Williston. But there is a parking garage in the city with L2 chargers. So I charge there while I'm visiting anyway rather than go out of my way to a DCFC. I suspect this is common behavior for EV drivers visiting distant cities. Do I "absolutely" need the spot? No way. But it's a huge convenience booster, and a Tesla parked there without being plugged in (they are prime spots in the garage) is unacceptable and speaks of entitlement.
 

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Running an errand at lunch today, I stopped at the local Target, which has a few (free, for 2 hours) ChargePoint L2 chargers. When I left, the app said there were some open.


I got there to find 4 CP spots, and the last had just been filled. The rightmost spot was a Tesla.


Here's the thing. Down the row from the CP L2 chargers were about twice as many Tesla charger spots, mostly vacant. Across the row were 3-4x more Tesla charger spots, also mostly empty.



The words that I used to describe that Tesla driver are not fit for family publication.

Who is to say that the Tesla spots weren't all occupied when that one Tesla parked at the CP charger?


Were the open Tesla spots actually Supercharger spots, or boring old destination charging spots? Destination chargers top out at around 20kw, perhaps they needed the greater capacity of the chargepoint charger.


Teslas have the same right to public charging facilities as anyone else. They paid in advance for the right to use the Supercharger network (in many cases), but they didn't sign away their right to use other systems.


If they weren't plugged in, or their charge was complete, they are clearly in the wrong, but you didn't say that. Inconsiderate behavior at public charging locations is going to get worse as more folks have electric vehicles. I see it with all kinds of EVs (and PHEVs as well). Tesla owners are no worse than anyone else in this regard, there are just more of them in most areas.
 

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If people only used free L2 when they absolutely needed it to complete their trip, they would very rarely get used. So, our arguments about who is entitled to use them is mostly arbitrary based on hypothetical worst case scenario need, and assuming we know something about others which we do not.

If a Prius Prime was charging, can we assume that person doesn't need the charge? How do we know they didn't run out of gasoline and pulled in running on battery alone (I've done it 3 times in the Prius)? Their need to charge then would be equal to anyone else not able to complete their trip without charging.

Can we assume that an EV charging at a free spot absolutely needs that charge to complete their trip?

Believe me, I get frustrated when people abuse free stuff too. In the case of free EV charging, I can easily see why any number of people would take advantage of it. The rule is first-come-first-serve, and they are abiding by that.
 

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If people have the opportunity to charge for free or pay, most people will take the free. The problem here is free charging. My wife had 70% charge and decided to use the malls free level 2 charger. It was by Xmas and she did it for a parking spot. When she told me I got pretty upset. I told her that we didn't need to charge and some people depend on that being open.

I think all level 2 chargers should charge a minimal fee to avoid issues like this. My work charges $0.15 a kWh and I appreciate it. If I ever need to charge at work because of a situation, I know that at least one will be open because it is not free.
In this specific situation, though, the theoretical nominal fee would probably not be enough to discourage some folks from taking the slot, especially if it was the only one available. It probably wouldn't matter if one was 10% SOC or 90% SOC, if it's the only parking slot available, there's a high likelihood of that EV driver taking it, nominal fee be damned. I can relate to how big of a cluster mall parking lots can be during the holidays.
 

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Free charging is free charging and the TM3 is just as entitled to it as any other car with a plug.

My work just installed 2 chargepoint L2. There are maybe 10 plugins at my work (including bolts, volts, leaves, TM3, i3 and Ford C-Max).

Anything with a plug is free (literally) to plug in, and It’s not worth the stress to argue about who needs it more. The Cmax has just as much dibs as the Leaf, unless clearly marked otherwise (e.g., “no PHEV charging).

To make it more fair, the chargepoint cuts off your charge after 3 hours, and sends a notification to move your car within 30 minutes. There is also an automated queue with email alerts.

In the week it has been active, it appears most owners are respecting the time limit and actually moving their car after 3 hours.
 

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If a Prius Prime was charging, can we assume that person doesn't need the charge? How do we know they didn't run out of gasoline and pulled in running on battery alone (I've done it 3 times in the Prius)? Their need to charge then would be equal to anyone else not able to complete their trip without charging.
Although you didn't specifically respond to me, I assume you are, given that I brought up the Prius Prime.

I was not talking about Prius Primes charging. They are welcome to do so. In fact, I love seeing them charge since it means that much less gas they are burning (and fumes they are spewing into the air I breathe). What I'm talking about is them parked in front of a working charger and not even plugging in. Also, at work we have more plug-ins than chargers. Most people will charge in the AM or PM, and move the cars around at lunch time. It is the Primes and Teslas that refuse to be good citizens and simply park there all day. This is not a huge parking lot - it would literally take 5 minutes to walk out, move your car, and get back to your desk.
 

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Although you didn't specifically respond to me, I assume you are, given that I brought up the Prius Prime.
It was a stream of thought inspired by your comments and remembering other conversations we've had on the forum regarding etiquette and loathing of "those people".

Tesla drivers aren't malevolent, and Bolt drivers aren't saints. Inconsiderate people are inconsiderate, and they own a variety of things. Perhaps there's some case to make that Tesla owners tend to be more vain, and therefore are narcissistic, but it would be hard to prove and not particularly interesting since a Tesla owner can be any number of things.
 

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I happen to know on good authority that every single Bolt owner* at my office is an exemplary citizen when it comes to sharing our limited charging resource.

*(I may or may not be the only Bolt driver there ;) )
 

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What percent of people absolutely depend on L2 charging to complete their trip?
In an urban setting there may be a significant percentage of EV drivers who rent or live in condos that make it impossible for them to charge at the residence, so they may rely on L2 charging during the day to make their EV ownership viable. It's unlikely that going without an L2 charge would prevent them from completing that particular trip, but it could put them in into a deficit situation in terms of maintaining their charge level, a situation from which it would take more effort to recover from than many of us would like to put up with.
 

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Fair enough, but what percentage is that?

It doesn't solve the problem of determining if someone is taking advantage of an opportunity to charge, or is relying on that charge to complete their trip.
Yeah, well I have no idea what the percentage would be. IMHO the best way to know for sure if someone really needs the charge is if the person has to pay for it. That's why I'm generally against free public charging.
 

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Yeah, well I have no idea what the percentage would be. IMHO the best way to know for sure if someone really needs the charge is if the person has to pay for it. That's why I'm generally against free public charging.
I agree completely. IMO, public charging should be more expensive than home (discourage cheapskates who don't need it), but cheaper than gas (to maintain the EV's fuel cost edge).
 

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I charged at the EVGo/EA charger in the outlet mall in Leesburg Va. last weekend. There was a beautiful Red Tesla S sitting comfortably in one of the three charging spots. I don’t who people that do this think they are fooling. Anyone vaguely familiar with EV’s is going to know the Teslas can’t charge there even if there was a cable “connected” to the car. Jerks will be jerks regardless of what they drive. At least I was able to charge, the last time I was there all 3 bays were ICE’d.

As an aside, the few chargers around here that I’ve looked used to be EVGo and now are marked with EVGo and EA. Did EA buy some or all of the EVGo network?
 

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I charged at the EVGo/EA charger in the outlet mall in Leesburg Va. last weekend. There was a beautiful Red Tesla S sitting comfortably in one of the three charging spots. I don’t who people that do this think they are fooling. Anyone vaguely familiar with EV’s is going to know the Teslas can’t charge there even if there was a cable “connected” to the car. Jerks will be jerks regardless of what they drive. At least I was able to charge, the last time I was there all 3 bays were ICE’d.

As an aside, the few chargers around here that I’ve looked used to be EVGo and now are marked with EVGo and EA. Did EA buy some or all of the EVGo network?

Why do you say that? AFAIK, a Model S with a J1772 adapter can charge at pretty much any L2 station
 

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I charged at the EVGo/EA charger in the outlet mall in Leesburg Va. last weekend. There was a beautiful Red Tesla S sitting comfortably in one of the three charging spots. I don’t who people that do this think they are fooling. Anyone vaguely familiar with EV’s is going to know the Teslas can’t charge there even if there was a cable “connected” to the car. Jerks will be jerks regardless of what they drive. At least I was able to charge, the last time I was there all 3 bays were ICE’d.

As an aside, the few chargers around here that I’ve looked used to be EVGo and now are marked with EVGo and EA. Did EA buy some or all of the EVGo network?
All Tesla's can charge on J1772's. That's how we charge at home. Superchargers/Tesla destination chargers are a unique handleset protocol. Now if a bolt was parked at a supercharger, that would be a jerk.
Now if it were a CCS charger then yes, he would be a jerk. I do expect an adapter for the CCS chargers though in the near future similar to Europe.
 

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There are Tesla charger adapters for use on my Bolt? And BTW we love are Bolt. If there were more available charge stations we would take it on longer trips.
 

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There are Tesla charger adapters for use on my Bolt? And BTW we love are Bolt. If there were more available charge stations we would take it on longer trips.
Maybe not for what you think. The TeslaTap and Jdapter discussed here,

https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/82-charging-batteries/32817-teslatap-jdapter.html#post502353

Are meant to be used at Tesla Destination Chargers

https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&search=North America&bounds=54.827424001524974,-78.36640506982803,25.964602761440684,-114.54042732715606&filters=destination charger&zoom=5

These are level 2 chargers and the program is intended to attract patrons to the establishments that host them and in return, Tesla foots the bill of supply and install to increase their exposure to long distance travel convenience beyond the Supercharger network.

Depending on where you are, yes, there is a concern about traveling outside your 120 mile circle of comfort. Bolt owners do it all the time though, just depends on your level of adventure.:)
I find this to be the best route planning app that may also help.

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/
It seems to work better for me in Google Chrome.
Happy travels.
 

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The TeslaTap and Jdapter discussed here,

https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/82-charging-batteries/32817-teslatap-jdapter.html#post502353

Are meant to be used at Tesla Destination Chargers
...and also can be used with the Tesla "UMC" (Universal Mobile Charger) which is Tesla's equivalent of the OEM EVSE that comes with the Volt. The advantage of the Tesla UMC over the GM OEM one is that it has interchangeable AC cords so that you can plug it into 120V/15A, 240V/30A or 240V/50A outlets, and the unit will automatically adapt the charge rate to the kind of outlet you're using.
 

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I know that people don't always like to hear this, but in my opinion the more expensive a vehicle is, the more likely I am to find it blocking any kind of parking.

This rule works quite well for: Trucks (A Bro Dozer can cost 60K or more)

Teslas (Self explanatory. I've been EV blocked by a NON CHARGING Tesla on numerous occasions. Just sitting there, cord still on the EVSE hanger. Dyefrog might have a defense for that.)

BMWs in EV spots.

Land Rovers in EV spots.

Corvettes diagonally parked across three compact car spots.

It is what it is.

Back when I had a crappy second hand car, I would, admittedly, park very close to these people.
 
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