[shotel]

Wow; that's a lot of money for...not that much car.

They're calling this an SUV? Is that "Squashed Utility Vehicle"? It's 5 inches taller than the Chrysler 300M sedan that was replaced by my Bolt. Certainly wouldn't have been able to bring home my chest freezer or window A/C in this....

That's the thing with BEVs. From the outside looking at it, I would have never thought that I could load up TWO full size stand up Bass inside a Bolt...and still have a seat for one other person. When I borrowed a Tesla X, I stupidly thought it would be about as roomy as my Saturn Outlook since the Outlook was longer and taller. The X was monstrously cavernous in comparison, This why it would be good to physically get in it and open it up.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

I like the Jaguar I-PACE a lot, but I'm not sure who would be cross shopping it with the Bolt EV.

Yes, it is a lot of money, but it's also a lot of car. Personally, I think it presents a far higher value than Tesla's offerings, but it doesn't really compete with any of them either. It's priced similarly to a top-of the line Model 3, but that's where the comparison stops being valid.

 

[shotel]

I like the Jaguar I-PACE a lot, but I'm not sure who would be cross shopping it with the Bolt EV.

Yes, it is a lot of money, but it's also a lot of car. Personally, I think it presents a far higher value than Tesla's offerings, but it doesn't really compete with any of them either. It's priced similarly to a top-of the line Model 3, but that's where the comparison stops being valid.

Very top of the line TM3 (excluding the tax credit). Jaguar says the I-Pace will come in lower than the Tesla X. $79,000. With tax credit; $71,500. Not cheap for me...but perhaps for some it's a better deal than an X? This where the Super charging network adds tremendous value in a price comparison. There is also one to look at in the Los Angeles Jaguar dealers as well. So perhaps most California dealers have one sitting in their showrooms...to "look at". Each dealer gets about 4/Month, and I am told that the first 3 Months are already sold out.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

Very top of the line TM3 (excluding the tax credit). Jaguar says the I-Pace will come in lower than the Tesla X. $79,000. With tax credit; $71,500. Not cheap for me...but perhaps for some it's a better deal than an X? This where the Super charging network adds tremendous value in a price comparison. There is also one to look at in the Los Angeles Jaguar dealers as well. So perhaps most California dealers have one sitting in their showrooms...to "look at". Each dealer gets about 4/Month, and I am told that the first 3 Months are already sold out.

Right now, the very top of the line Model 3 is the only one that is available with a short turn around, but yes, the I-PACE is a bit more expensive. It probably compares better to the Model S in terms of cost versus capability.

 

[GJETSON]

James Bond and Ivanka Trump talk EVs

Apparently James is now the comptroller at Apple, and has DC fast charging in the executive parking lot.

https://youtu.be/s84BYh_9OXg

https://www.youtube.com/user/JaguarUSA/videos

 

[daveo4Bolt]

you can get a Model 3 before you can get an iPace - I was shopping for one and they really are not available - apparently Jaguar is recovering/planning from overwhelming demand...

we'll see how this shakes out.

there are only 2 100 mile+ BEV's you can buy today that are any good

1. the Bolt
2. the Leaf

3. TEsla Model 3 if you can wait "a bit"...

everything else is vaporware.

 

[zebraitis]

Dealer says this may be possible:
Lease For $549 per month + tax
$4,995 Total Due at Signing Including 1st Payment, Tax, Title and License Fees, Security Deposit Waived. Factory Scheduled Maintenance Included. 10,00 Miles Per Year, 0.30c Excess Mileage Charge. 36 Months. On Above Average Approved 700+Credit

(($4999 + (549 x 35)) + 6% estimated tax) = $25,667

OR...

Add $5,00 to that figure, live in Colorado, take advantage of the tax rebates, and you own a Bolt Premier. To keep.

:nerd:

The I-Pace is really nice.

But to really enjoy it, you need to live in a car commercial, where everyone is rich, dressed impeccably, and are driving on roads that are on some windswept coast that no one else is on. For miles.

I need an electric AWD that will take me to Home Depot, allow me to throw in a bag of cement or set of cabinets without worrying that I will rip the I-Pace plastic seats.

Yes. Plastic. You get plastic in the I-Pace "S". You don't get leather in the I-Pace until the second and third option up ("SE" and "HSE')

.

 

[shotel]

If they actual make some for Canada it will be popular in major metros like Toronto. Euro zoot commands a lot of interest and price is no object here for those zoot intenders.

@Cehjun, The Toronto Jaguar Art of Performance Tour September 22-28.. Some member here needs to take one for the team and actually drive an I-Pace. Which, as I understand it, you can do there (where you're at). This is a drive around cones in a big parking lot affair.

You game?

you can get a Model 3 before you can get an iPace - I was shopping for one and they really are not available - apparently Jaguar is recovering/planning from overwhelming demand..
everything else is vaporware.

yeah, I've moved the IPace out of the vaporware category and into the 'release candidate' category. There are production IPace's in many dealership showrooms and in the possession of select individuals, but still not quite ready for prime time.

From what I gather so far, Jaguar...like almost every new entry BEV manufacturer before it...has figured out quickly that the first deliveries go to States & Countries with the fattest $$$ incentives and/or ZEV credits. Almost all of the California customers report delivery dates, albeit pushed back by 2-3 Months. The Netherlands may wind up with the lions share of the first 5,000 built.

 

[SparkE]

there are only 2 100 mile+ BEV's you can buy today that are any good

1. the Bolt
2. the Leaf

3. TEsla Model 3 if you can wait "a bit"...

everything else is vaporware.

First, what exactly is wrong with the eGolf? And the 2018 Kia Soul EV (111 mile range)? Is it just that they aren't available ('selling') at over 1000 units a month?

Secondly, IMO "announced cars" aren't true vaporware (or at least not until their projected release date has passed, just like the T model 3 last year). The Kona, the Niro, the 2019 Kia Soul EV, the i-Pace are simply announced as "coming" (2019 models). If they aren't on the market by mid/late 2019, then they are vaporware.

 

[daveo4Bolt]

eGolf is less than 100 miles is it not?

 

[SparkE]

eGolf is less than 100 miles is it not?

The 2017 model eGolf raised the (U.S.) range to 125 miles - even though it didn't show up until near the end of 2017, and the '2016 model' was sold for much of 2017.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Secondly, IMO "announced cars" aren't true vaporware (or at least not until their projected release date has passed, just like the T model 3 last year).

The term "vapourware" was coined in the 1980's by computer industry observers who noticed that IBM was announcing products with the apparent purpose of stifling competition. When a competitor rolled out a superior computer, IBM would announce it's own version even though it was nowhere ready to be produced. This would cause companies to forgo the competitor's offering and wait for IBM's, even though in some cases it took over 3 years for the announced "product" to actually come to market (a very long time in the computer industry).

The Douglas Aircraft company did something similar to win orders for it's DC-8 jetliner - to compete with Boeing's 707 (which was an actual flying aircraft), they would tweak the specifications to please specific customers - something they could do because they hadn't yet nailed down the final design. Critics called the DC-8 a "paper airplane".

The rollout of the base version of the Tesla Model 3 shows some parallels to these practices, although the existence of the more upscale versions mutes the similarity somewhat.

So I generally ascribe the term "vapourware" to describe things that appear to be competitors to existing products but which have no clear evidence of timely availability.

 

[SparkE]

So the Bolt was vaporware?

 

[daveo4Bolt]

if you want to purchase something but it's generally unavailable for reasonable time fulfillment I would consider it close to vaporware - it's at least constrained

examples of constrained EV's - ie. you can get one but you'll have to wait

1. Tesla Model 3
2. Chevy Bolt
3. Tesla Model S
4. Tesla Model X

examples of Vaporware - it's unlikely you can obtain one or even get a schedule as to when you could

1. Tesla Model Y
2. Tesla Roadster 2.0
3. Jaguar iPace
4. Audi eTron
5. Porsche Taycan/Mission-E

examples of EV's you could probably purchase and drive home today

1. Volt
2. eGolf
3. Leaf
4. Prius
5. Ford C-Max
6. Tesla Model S (used)
7. Tesla Model X (used)

 

[Sean Nelson]

So the Bolt was vaporware?

Not in my opinion. Yes, it may well have been produced as a competitive or even anti-competitive measure. But they announced it, told us when it would be available (on a pretty aggressive schedule by automotive standards) and delivered it when promised. None of the Bolts I've seen driving around looked particularly vapourous to me...

It would have been vapourware if GM had promised and not delivered, which is why Tesla is facing these kinds of criticisms for the entry level version of its Model 3. It's been over a year since Tesla started taking reservations and actually producing cars, and there's still no indication of when these will actually be available.

 

[DucRider]

examples of Vaporware - it's unlikely you can obtain one or even get a schedule as to when you could

1. Tesla Model Y
2. Tesla Roadster 2.0
3. Jaguar iPace
4. Audi eTron
5. Porsche Taycan/Mission-E

I'd have to put the Y and the Roadster in a different class. All the others have at least multiple pre-production prototypes undergoing extensive testing. The Y isn't even a design exercise yet, and the R2 is a one off concept.

Cars like the Kona Electric are shipping in some parts of the world, but not in the US. Does that make them vaporous in the US but real elsewhere?

And there are exactly 2 new e-golf's listed on cars.com (compared to 3,116 Bolt EV's - not sure why you have it in the "have to wait" category) and those same 2 have been the only ones for at least several weeks, so might not be real. That puts it firmly in the vaporware category by your definition. (and the C-Max Energi was discontinued in 2017, though there are some still on dealer lots)

 

[zebraitis]

Looks like Jag figured out that Electric and nostalgia works together.

They just announced that they are offering the remanufacture the 1960's e-type in an all electric version.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/23/autos/jaguar-e-type-electric/index.html

 

[SparkE]

So the Bolt was vaporware?

Not in my opinion. Yes, it may well have been produced as a competitive or even anti-competitive measure. But they announced it ...

That was my point. If a car company says "the 2019 i-Pace will be like this ..." then it isn't vaporware (yet); they are announcing a new product for next year.

Looking at sales numbers (here : https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/) ...

the TM3, TMS, TMX, the Bolt and the LEAF are all "widely available" (in that order). The 500e, the Soul, the eGolf (again, in that order) are all "constrained" ; never more than 300 a month and most less than 200. Those are *all* the BEVs currently sold in the US that even remotely approach a fairly constant at-least-200-per-month sales figure.

So I guess that I answered my own question - the eGolf and the Soul EV just aren't being produced in quantity.

 

[SparkE]

Oh, it appears that the eGolf availability is now a mirage (18 sales in July, 32 in June, 76 in May).

 

[psyflyjohn]

If you order the Jag, be sure to specify the optional mechanic-in-the-trunk. I don't believe the brand is very reliable...