Lane Keep Assist / Cruise Control Updates

ev1

· #2 · Dec 27, 2016

masters said:
I wonder with Tesla giving software updates to their cars that increase the functionality of their "Autopilot".

I wonder if Chevrolet would be so kind as to improve the "lane keep assist" AND maybe "adaptive cruise control". It would make traffic bearable.

Has anyone heard of Chevys ability/desire to update the software??

0

Yes, they have mentioned it has over the air software update ability:

https://electrek.co/2016/09/09/gm-over-the-air-updates-chevy-bolt-ev/

I have seen this called out elsewhere in various journalist reviews.

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ev1

· #3 · Dec 27, 2016

I'm hoping they'll add in navigation (with range optimizing routes) via an over the air update

http://www.hybridcars.com/early-bolt-evs-may-not-have-promised-navigation/

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DanCar

· #4 · Dec 27, 2016

The rumors I heard of or dreamed up for OTA upgrades for the Bolt are:
1. Some kind of driver assist features
2. Increased power charge rate
3. Embedded android which will include navigation.
Have links about embedded android auto but was denied ability to post them.
Time line is over the next 12 months.

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Jeff N

· #5 · Dec 27, 2016

ev1 said:
I'm hoping they'll add in navigation (with range optimizing routes) via an over the air update

An update that adds builtin navigation appears to be unlikely but not impossible.

Do a google search for the hybridcars.com article "New 2017 Chevy Bolt EV Details Emerge As First Deliveries Approach".

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DaV8or

· #6 · Dec 27, 2016

The only thing I really wish I could have, is adaptive cruise control. Ever since I heard about it I have always coveted it. I was sad to learn the Bolt was not going to have it. However if there is any truth to OTA updates that might bring this capability, even if it is a hack by a third party might give me reason to order the Driver Confidence package just to get the necessary hardware needed. I'm assuming the sensors in that package are what you would need to interface with the CC and control the throttle and brakes.

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masters

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 28, 2016

DaV8or said:
The only thing I really wish I could have, is adaptive cruise control. Ever since I heard about it I have always coveted it. I was sad to learn the Bolt was not going to have it. However if there is any truth to OTA updates that might bring this capability, even if it is a hack by a third party might give me reason to order the Driver Confidence package just to get the necessary hardware needed. I'm assuming the sensors in that package are what you would need to interface with the CC and control the throttle and brakes.

Yep all the hardware is there and Chevys generosity is only a mouse click away. I hope they give updates to the software from time to time.

Currently what you buy is what you have, it's rare for an auto manufacturer to update anything.

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Sean Nelson

· #8 · Dec 28, 2016

DaV8or said:
...if there is any truth to OTA updates that might bring this capability, even if it is a hack by a third party might give me reason to order the Driver Confidence package just to get the necessary hardware needed. I'm assuming the sensors in that package are what you would need to interface with the CC and control the throttle and brakes.

Don't hold your breath - I'm pretty sure the car is not equipped with the necessary hardware. To start with there's Josh Tavel's statement that Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) requires blended braking which the Bolt EV does not have. And then there's the fact that the ACC implementation on the Chevy Volt requires a radar unit that's housed in a distinctive bowtie emblem in the front grille. You can tell which Volt's are ACC-equipped if you know what it looks like. The Bolt EV doesn't appear to have that hardware.

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Jeff N

· #9 · Dec 28, 2016

Sean Nelson said:
Don't hold your breath - I'm pretty sure the car is not equipped with the necessary hardware. To start with there's Josh Tavel's statement that Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) requires blended braking which the Bolt EV does not have. And then there's the fact that the ACC implementation on the Chevy Volt requires a radar unit that's housed in a distinctive bowtie emblem in the front grille. You can tell which Volt's are ACC-equipped if you know what it looks like. The Bolt EV doesn't appear to have that hardware.

I agree that Chevy seems to use a radar unit for their ACC and that the Bolt is unlikely to have that. BMW has a camera-only ACC for use at lower speeds including stop & go highway traffic but I doubt that GM will update the Bolt EV to do something like that since they don't do that on other car models.

As for Josh Tavel's statement about blended braking and ACC -- that remains a mystery. I hope someone will ask him to clarify his reported comment because it does not seem to make sense. The Bolt EV appears to have "blended brakes" although the implementation is different from that in the Spark EV and first generation Volt. In fact, the brake hardware reportedly used in the Bolt EV (Bosch iBooster) is the same basic system that Tesla switched to in order to help them implement ACC and advanced assisted driving features in their "AutoPilot" system.

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Sean Nelson

· #10 · Dec 28, 2016

Jeff N said:
As for Josh Tavel's statement about blended braking and ACC -- that remains a mystery. I hope someone will ask him to clarify his reported comment because it does not seem to make sense. The Bolt EV appears to have "blended brakes" although the implementation is different from that in the Spark EV and first generation Volt.

Post number 80 in this thread describes how the Bolt EV's brake system works. According to Josh Tavel it does regen when you push the brake pedal, but in a technically different way than whatever "blended braking" is. So the good news is that you still get regen when braking conventionally using the brake pedal, and the bad news is that whatever the technology is that's being used isn't compatible with Chey's implementation of ACC.

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Jeff N

· #11 · Dec 28, 2016

Sean Nelson said:
Post number 80 ... and the bad news is that whatever the technology is that's being used isn't compatible with Chey's implementation of ACC.

And that is the real mystery -- how and why is this new braking system incompatible with Chevrolet's ACC system? I haven't the slightest idea.

Newer Teslas, the 2017 Volt, the 2017 CT6 hybrid, and the 2016 Malibu hybrid all apparently use basically the same Bosch iBooster braking system as the Bolt EV yet they all have adaptive cruise control and the Bolt can't?

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Sean Nelson

· #12 · Dec 28, 2016

Jeff N said:
And that is the real mystery -- how and why is this new braking system incompatible with Chevrolet's ACC system? I haven't the slightest idea.

Well if I understand Josh Tavel's description in the post I linked to it appears that the Volt's braking implementation gives the computer the ability to activate the hydraulic brakes, whereas in the Bolt it doesn't. Hydraulic braking in the Bolt is activated by the driver pushing the brake pedal down past the regen range far enough to start engaging the master cylinder piston.

So I assume the issue is that regen braking force alone is not considered sufficient to safely control the vehicle speed in cruise control "car following" mode.

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DaV8or

· #13 · Dec 28, 2016

So it sounds like to me that I should forget about ACC for the 2017 Bolt and no need order the driver confidence package.

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Jeff N

· #14 · Dec 28, 2016 (Edited)

Sean Nelson said:
Well if I understand Josh Tavel's description in the post I linked to it appears that the Volt's braking implementation gives the computer the ability to activate the hydraulic brakes, whereas in the Bolt it doesn't. Hydraulic braking in the Bolt is activated by the driver pushing the brake pedal down past the regen range far enough to start engaging the master cylinder piston.

So I assume the issue is that regen braking force alone is not considered sufficient to safely control the vehicle speed in cruise control "car following" mode.

Just because a driver may physically contribute to providing hydraulic friction braking does not necessarily imply that hydraulic pressure cannot be independently applied by the computer. I think it's very likely that it can.

In any case, the only way to resolve this is to look at the actual brake system hardware in a Bolt EV and then find the supplier documentation for it. If the Bolt EV does indeed use the Bosch iBooster system then the computer should be able to apply hydraulic braking as it does in those other cars I mentioned earlier.

Or, maybe we need to find Josh Tavel or a GM brake system engineer and talk to them in detail directly in person.

I'm still skeptical that the Bolt EV braking system is incompatible with ACC. For instance, does this mean they replaced it with another braking system for the autonomous Bolt EV's that brake only by computer?

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Sean Nelson

· #15 · Dec 28, 2016

Jeff N said:
Just because a driver may physically contribute to providing hydraulic friction braking does not necessarily imply that hydraulic pressure cannot be independently applied by the computer. I think it's very likely that it can.

Did you read the description in the link I posted? He says that the Bolt's computer applies negative torque but not hydraulic pressure, unlike the Volt. Hydraulic application comes only from the driver's pedal movement.

Now it may be that the brake parts are capable of accepting computer input to deliver hydraulic pressure. But it appears that such capability is not being used in the Bolt, so it's a bit of a moot point.

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DaV8or

· #16 · Dec 28, 2016

Sean Nelson said:
Did you read the description in the link I posted? He says that the Bolt's computer applies negative torque but not hydraulic pressure, unlike the Volt. Hydraulic application comes only from the driver's pedal movement.

Now it may be that the brake parts are capable of accepting computer input to deliver hydraulic pressure. But it appears that such capability is not being used in the Bolt, so it's a bit of a moot point.

Hmmm... now that I think of it, ABS, traction and stability features require that the brakes on a car to be able to be activated by a computer. The Bolt has these features. The more I think about it, the necessary hardware to make ACC is there in the Bolt that is equipped with the driver confidence package.

I bet GM is just waiting for future years to make this a part of the Premier trim level. When they do, it will likely just be a software change.

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devbolt

· #17 · Dec 28, 2016

DaV8or said:
Hmmm... now that I think of it, ABS, traction and stability features require that the brakes on a car to be able to be activated by a computer. The Bolt has these features. The more I think about it, the necessary hardware to make ACC is there in the Bolt that is equipped with the driver confidence package.

I bet GM is just waiting for future years to make this a part of the Premier trim level. When they do, it will likely just be a software change.

A radar/sonar/laser system is also necessary, so there needs to be some additional hardware. A camera based system is not sufficient, especially at freeway speeds.

I, too, would've liked to have ACC on the car initially. We have had it in 2 of our cars and love it, but it's not a make or break kinda of feature that would cause me to pass on the car.

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DaV8or

· #18 · Dec 29, 2016

devbolt said:
A radar/sonar/laser system is also necessary, so there needs to be some additional hardware. A camera based system is not sufficient, especially at freeway speeds.

I, too, would've liked to have ACC on the car initially. We have had it in 2 of our cars and love it, but it's not a make or break kinda of feature that would cause me to pass on the car.

Well, my understanding is, the Driver Confidence package includes a feature that gives warnings when you are too close to cars in front with the cruise control on. It also alerts you to objects in front of you when parking. This to me implies it has a radar system include in this package.

It's not a deal breaker for me either. Just a disappointment, that's all.

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devbolt

· #19 · Dec 29, 2016

DaV8or said:
Well, my understanding is, the Driver Confidence package includes a feature that gives warnings when you are too close to cars in front with the cruise control on. It also alerts you to objects in front of you when parking. This to me implies it has a radar system include in this package.

It's not a deal breaker for me either. Just a disappointment, that's all.

It's a camera based system with parking sonar sensors. Works fine for short range stuff, not so much for longer distance stuff.

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Jeff N

· #20 · Dec 29, 2016

Sean Nelson said:
Did you read the description in the link I posted? He says that the Bolt's computer applies negative torque but not hydraulic pressure, unlike the Volt. Hydraulic application comes only from the driver's pedal movement.

Now it may be that the brake parts are capable of accepting computer input to deliver hydraulic pressure. But it appears that such capability is not being used in the Bolt, so it's a bit of a moot point.

Yes, I read the description. It was a description of what happens when the driver pushes on the brake pedal. That says nothing about whether the brake system can also be computer controlled to provide hydraulic braking as part of automatic emergency braking (AEB), selective wheel braking by the anti-skid control system (Stabilitrak), or potentially Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC).

I was told by GM spokesman Fred Ligouri that if the Bolt EV is rear ended when brought to a stop by one-pedal driving (driver has no foot on the brake) that the car will automatically apply the friction brakes to immediately stop the car. How does it do that without the computer requesting hydraulic braking? I understood that this computer-initiated braking was separate from also automatically applying the parking brake electrically.

All this would be a lot more definitive if GM made a braking engineer available for an interview but I did my best to extract Fred's understanding of the Bolt's braking behavior when I talked to him at the media days before the public opening of the LA Auto Show.

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