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Discussion Starter #1
8 years is ok, 10 years would be better, 15 years would be best. Hm... wonder if Tesla would offer 15 year warranty with their million mile battery.

 

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I think 10 years is fine. What’s better is that they guarantee they will actually make battery packs for cars for at least 20-30 years, otherwise, all EVs will be worthless once packs are no longer available.
 

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I believe the battery warranty in California is a bit longer. Forgot the details though.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think 10 years is fine. What’s better is that they guarantee they will actually make battery packs for cars for at least 20-30 years, otherwise, all EVs will be worthless once packs are no longer available.
I don't think they will make the exact same battery pack for 20-30 years. Maybe a same size pack but not the same pack. When the pre-2020 Bolts need replacement, I am thinking they will install the battery with the new chemistry.
 

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I think 10 years is fine. What’s better is that they guarantee they will actually make battery packs for cars for at least 20-30 years, otherwise, all EVs will be worthless once packs are no longer available.
Can you still buy a new engine for a 20-year-old car? I think the only option I have for my 25-year-old camper van is a rebuild. I don't see why I'd expect battery packs to be any different.
 

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I don't want to own any car that long. Jesus, next you guys are going to suggest we should have just one wife.
 

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8 years is ok, 10 years would be better, 15 years would be best. Hm... wonder if Tesla would offer 15 year warranty with their million mile battery.

Don't hold your breath
 

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Hyundai/Kia EVs have already offered 10-year warranties or better.

I think the interesting thing about the Lexus EV in question is not that it offers a 10-year warranty, but that it goes up to 1 million km (621k miles), not the usual 160,000 km (100k miles).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hyundai/Kia EVs have already offered 10-year warranties or better.

I think the interesting thing about the Lexus EV in question is not that it offers a 10-year warranty, but that it goes up to 1 million km (621k miles), not the usual 160,000 km (100k miles).
I think that speaks a lot to the expected reliability of EVs... totally in opposite to those who claims that you need to replace the whole battery every 3 or 5 years. :)

But throw this in along with robot drivers that would drive multiples of more miles per day picking up and dropping off people throughout the day, and we are really looking at a future of not having to own cars...
 

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I think that speaks a lot to the expected reliability of EVs... totally in opposite to those who claims that you need to replace the whole battery every 3 or 5 years. :)
I think that such claim had a bit of basis for early EVs. Smaller battery means you wear it down a lot quicker given the same driving distance compared to a larger one. Since those old cars had only about 1/4 the capacity of a Bolt EV, it's going to last just as long, or even worse due to lack of active temperature regulation.

The problem is, those early experiences set a low expectation, and it still persists somewhat to this day. I expect that the battery in the modern EVs with more than 50 kWh of capacity will easily last 10 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Commentary on Ultium battery being the standard pack size for GM, each cell connected to its own controller, allowing partial or complete replacement. I guess idea is like the AA battery vs a custom battery pack for the device.
 

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More and more I'm convinced p7wang doesn't understand the basics of a market transaction, let alone how an economy works. Warranties have a cost associated, and that cost doesn't get paid from thin air. You want a longer warranty, you can pay for it. Pay now, or pay later, that's the principle of a warranty (insurance).

There's plenty of aftermarket warranty companies for those paranoid enough to pay to alleviate their anxiety.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
More and more I'm convinced p7wang doesn't understand the basics of a market transaction, let alone how an economy works. Warranties have a cost associated, and that cost doesn't get paid from thin air. You want a longer warranty, you can pay for it. Pay now, or pay later, that's the principle of a warranty (insurance).

There's plenty of aftermarket warranty companies for those paranoid enough to pay to alleviate their anxiety.
Is this opposite day? Your comment totally explains why it's dumb for Hyundai and Kia, after improving their product quality, would offer longer warranties, NOT! You may need to go to business school to study Marketing and also Economics. :)

BTW:

Now, back to real world discussions... looks like CATL and GM may have their own version of 1M mile battery that has zero cobalt, if true, they've surpassed Tesla which seems to indicate a 1M battery with low cobalt!
 

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It was mentioned to me by the dealership when I was buying my 2019 LT. Here is another source.


-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I am pretty sure that article is wrong. I spent a little time googling it a year or so ago, and the CA law (well, technically it is a regulation) that requires a battery warranty of 10 years/150K miles is for hybrids (plug-in or not) if the vendor wants it to be classified as a PZEV (and thus help the vendor meet its CA requirements of fleet mileage and ZEV percentages). I believe the idea was that the battery was considered part of the "emission control system" (since it allows lower emissions). It is in CCR §1962 ("Zero-Emission Vehicle Standards for 2005 through 2008 Model Year Passenger Cars, Light-Duty Trucks, and Medium-Duty Vehicles."), specifically 1962(c)(2)(D) ("Partial ZEV Allowance Vehicles (PZEVs).", Extended Warranty)

Battery electric vehicles aren't classified as PZEVs, they are classified as ZEVs , so the battery warranty requirement for PZEVs doesn't apply.
 

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More and more I'm convinced p7wang doesn't understand the basics of a market transaction, let alone how an economy works. Warranties have a cost associated, and that cost doesn't get paid from thin air.
The flip side of this is that manufacturers offer warranties because they believe their product is robust. If, for example, you build a product with a 3-year warranty that lasts for 10 years under worst-case use then there's very little cost to extending its warranty period. And indeed, if it encourages more people to buy the product and this leads to more profit, then the warranty literally can pay for itself.

I realize that cars are a complex product and that warranty extensions do have a real cost, but I'm just trying to point out that warranties don't always have to be purely a cost item for manufacturers.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The flip side of this is that manufacturers offer warranties because they believe their product is robust. If, for example, you build a product with a 3-year warranty that lasts for 10 years under worst-case use then there's very little cost to extending its warranty period. And indeed, if it encourages more people to buy the product and this leads to more profit, then the warranty literally can pay for itself.

I realize that cars are a complex product and that warranty extensions do have a real cost, but I'm just trying to point out that warranties don't always have to be purely a cost item for manufacturers.
You are on point. If you have a better product that 1 lasts longer and 2 is cheaper, longer warranty actually cost you nothing. And if long life is the norm and you do not change, a competitor will change and you are out of business. That's how a REAL business person would think. :)
 
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