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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As I was preparing for my outlet install today, I spent the last couple weeks plinking around various purchasing outlets (amazon, EV sites) to see what was out there, what they cost and what was coming up.

I noticed a big coincidence...a couple actually...

1. Companies that have merged or been acquired in the last 3-12 months have all but stopped putting out new product. Related...

2. A *lot* of the popular brands and models are disappearing. The traditional "stations" are being replaced by a newer wave of inline/cable style units designed to be coiled up and taken with you rather than a box mounted to the wall. If they weren't super-expensive and/or weren't junk (or at least didn't have a ton of picture-backed narratives posted to review sections), they seem to have been sold out as Amazon Prime day approached. Bosch, JuiceBox 40, a lot of them were nowhere to be found now that I was ready to buy. Even 2 of the 3 Chevy dealers in town came up empty because the older Aero units were out of their catalog and their information said the Bosch 30A unit would be replacing it, but you had to contact Bosch directly to get it, Chevy had no path to order them for now. Huh?

Finally, my least-favorite dealer in town confirmed they could still order the Aero 30A units, so I put down CC info yesterday and will be picking it up later today when the confirmed shipment arrives.

What a hassle. I hope whatever change/evolution the EV charger market is going through shakes out sometime soon and we get some newer model stations available. I may be doing this again next year if we move...
 

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I've decided to skip the whole EVSE buy altogether. Installed a NEMA 14-50 outlet in the garage. Started using the EVSE that came with the car with an adapter and it meets all my charging needs. Maybe I'll buy if they're giving them away. Like $250 may be a price point I'd consider.

I'm keeping my eye on prices for a home DCFC. I might pull the trigger if the price gets below $2K. Until then, I'll just wait.
 

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In my mind, there's not a lot to change. These are extension cords with some safety circuitry built in. Of course, you can add all kinds of complexity like WiFi and app control, plus data logging and schedules and power monitoring...

There was a Gen I Leaf EVSE on OfferUp for several weeks for $20. Finally I couldn't resist any longer and bought it. Gathered what I need to modify it to 240v, which will have a max rating of 3.3 kW. Pretty slow, but the charging head alone is probably worth $20. Plus, I had the extra parts to convert it laying around.
 

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I have been recently seeing new 32A EVSE's for less than $300.oo, and around-$200.oo 16A units have been around for a while (still 3 times faster than the stock 120V EVSE).

Also, there must be a growing secondary market for EVSE's. For example, in the next few months I will be selling at least one of my EVSE's on eBay.
 

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...The traditional "stations" are being replaced by a newer wave of inline/cable style units designed to be coiled up and taken with you rather than a box mounted to the wall.
I'm using the OEM EVSE plugged into a 240V outlet in my garage. I've mounted the EVSE on the wall (there are some screw slots on the back of it for this purpose) and have run the charging cord up into the rafters and over to the car via some pulleys and weights so that I can pull down the plug and connect it without having to step over the cable on the floor. Way better than any conventional "station" IMHO.
 

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2022 Bolt EUV Launch Edition Ghost Grey
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I'm using the OEM EVSE plugged into a 240V outlet in my garage. I've mounted the EVSE on the wall (there are some screw slots on the back of it for this purpose) and have run the charging cord up into the rafters and over to the car via some pulleys and weights so that I can pull down the plug and connect it without having to step over the cable on the floor. Way better than any conventional "station" IMHO.
I know this is a little bit off topic, but would you mind sharing some images of your setup re: pulleys and weights for your cord? I've been mulling over this idea myself recently but I haven't quite figured out how best to go about it.
 

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It's interesting how prices on L2 EVSE's haven't come down much the last few years. I bought a Clipper Creek LCS-25 for $514 5 years ago. I look at the CC site today, and the same exact unit is listed for $469, a reduction of only $45.
Especially once you come to the realization that an EVSE is really just a smart safety extension cord. It's little more than an 240V AC contactor (runs about $10), A GFCI detector, and a handful of electronics run by the equivalent of a Raspberry Pi or Arduino, each which are available in some form for less than $10. As an electronics guys, the prices for EVSE make be sick to my stomach. I held out using the OEM EVSE until I came across a used Bosch 30A unit in a moving sale for $195. Having bought a J1772 plug and cable, I recognized nearly half the cost I paid was just for the plug. BTW that Bosch unit is still available on Amazon starting at $650. It's highway robbery man.

ga2500ev
 

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21 Sienna "Sparkollz" 22 EUV "Titinsky"
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Especially once you come to the realization that an EVSE is really just a smart safety extension cord. It's little more than an 240V AC contactor (runs about $10), A GFCI detector, and a handful of electronics run by the equivalent of a Raspberry Pi or Arduino, each which are available in some form for less than $10. As an electronics guys, the prices for EVSE make be sick to my stomach. I held out using the OEM EVSE until I came across a used Bosch 30A unit in a moving sale for $195. Having bought a J1772 plug and cable, I recognized nearly half the cost I paid was just for the plug. BTW that Bosch unit is still available on Amazon starting at $650. It's highway robbery man.

ga2500ev
The EVSE market in the US obviously follows the the market for non-Tesla EV's: small, stagnant and uncertain. Also the secondary market is barely existent. Therefore, I do not expect the prices to drop until sometime in 2020.

The real question would be, why don't EV's come with an on-board adapter, so you'd just plug the car into 120V or 240V and be done with it.
 

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The EVSE market in the US obviously follows the the market for non-Tesla EV's: small, stagnant and uncertain. Also the secondary market is barely existent. Therefore, I do not expect the prices to drop until sometime in 2020.

The real question would be, why don't EV's come with an on-board adapter, so you'd just plug the car into 120V or 240V and be done with it.
It's the safety issue. There are a handful of useful safety elements bring to the table that makes EVSEs worth developing/using:

1. It's a dead plug until it's plugged in.
2. GFCI kicks out the unit in damp/wet situations
3. The control pilot limits the maximum available charging current.
4. The special plug/connector limits possible misuse.
5. Control testing for stuck contactors limits fault situations.

So I don't begruge the concept of an EVSE. I do get annoyed that the market has been set based on something other than real costs of the units.

My second gripe, which I've discussed here before is that it would be so simple for OEM EVSEs that come with the cars to be so much more capable. It seems like OEM EVSE are just thown in as an afterthough like the tire reinflation kit. But an EV cannot function without being charged. It's ridiculous to think that 120V at 12A is a reasonable maximum charging speed and being forced to buy a separate unit if anything faster is needed. The EVSE is a crucial element of the EV universe. Here's what I'd like to see with OEM EVSEs:

1. True dual voltage with adapters and auto-voltage detection.
2. High/Low power control. High power would be 1.44/5.76 kW for 120/240V (12 amps for 120V and 24 amps for 240V). Low power would be 960W/2.88kW for 120/240V (8 amps for 120V and 12 amps for 240V). Can be implemented with a single slide switch.

It's clearly one of the items that Tesla did get right with their UMC system.

ga2500ev
 

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I did not, but do now think that many new Bolt owners might be satisfied with the supplied GM charger and the adapter plug to 240 that is now on Amazon. It is a cheap way to go 240, in that most of it was paid for when purchasing the Bolt. We have people here and on other sites who are using the 14-50 voltage combining adapter to the one connector coming from the GM adapter. They are getting the 16 amp max out of that combo (the 12 max was for 120v). That allows them to defer, or, in some cases, never get a full 32 amp L2.

Bob Eash showed, on another site, from his Bolt readout, over 100 miles added in about 9 hours...with this adapter. For real...

As to the below $300 EVSE that are flooding the market, we all know that is the cheaper China direct type manufacturing, where cost is saved on all parts. I am sure that they do not meet Juice, Tesla, Bosch, etc., specified parameters. Thus, you can save a lot. And??? They may just last as long as the $600 models. That is the gamble.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I held out using the OEM EVSE until I came across a used Bosch 30A unit in a moving sale for $195. Having bought a J1772 plug and cable, I recognized nearly half the cost I paid was just for the plug. BTW that Bosch unit is still available on Amazon starting at $650. It's highway robbery man.

ga2500ev
Well, the overall point is true, but in the case of Bosch, the "refresh" of that line is the EV's. Same look, slightly lower price. The EV220 30A model is $455.82 on Amazon. They sold out the current batch, so the "delivery time" is saying 1-4 weeks ATM. I was going to get this one until they disappeared, so I found a Chevy dealer still selling the 32A AeroVenture that used to be in the GM accessories list. $440 *after* my $100 GM new-car-buyer credit was applied. Gulp.

Link to the EV220 below:
[ame]https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-EL-51254-Level-EV-Charger/dp/B07BLF1N84[/ame]
 

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I've decided to skip the whole EVSE buy altogether. Installed a NEMA 14-50 outlet in the garage. Started using the EVSE that came with the car with an adapter and it meets all my charging needs. Maybe I'll buy if they're giving them away. Like $250 may be a price point I'd consider.

I'm keeping my eye on prices for a home DCFC. I might pull the trigger if the price gets below $2K. Until then, I'll just wait.

I could see the utility of a home (24kW?) DCFC if I were an Uber/Lyft driver, and only drove local routes. Other than that scenario, I have no use for one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I drive Uber on the weekends here in Vegas. L2 is a Must-have. Running Friday night is fine, but I've been having to hit the EVgo stations Saturday morning before running the second day. I usually skip Sundays now because:

1. The battery is so low and don't want to over-use FastCharge.
2. I don't have luggage space like I used to and most Sunday morning rides in Vegas are "hotel to airport" runs.

Having the L2 will let me return to my ICE days of Friday night, 2 time periods on Saturday and then the Sunday away from the strip/hotels for locals needing service.
 

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I drive Uber on the weekends here in Vegas. L2 is a Must-have. Running Friday night is fine, but I've been having to hit the EVgo stations Saturday morning before running the second day. I usually skip Sundays now because:

1. The battery is so low and don't want to over-use FastCharge.
2. I don't have luggage space like I used to and most Sunday morning rides in Vegas are "hotel to airport" runs.

Having the L2 will let me return to my ICE days of Friday night, 2 time periods on Saturday and then the Sunday away from the strip/hotels for locals needing service.

I'm seriously considering driving for Uber or Lyft. I live in Huntington Beach, CA, less than a mile from downtown/Main Street.


What gives me pause is the prospect of someone barfing in my Bolt. Nothing destroys a pristine vehicle interior as quickly as barf. :crying:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
to be sure, that is always my 100% concern. I usually quit on Fridays around 2am to avoid the REALLY drunk ones, but I also keep one expandable circular barf ring/bag in my cupholders (and replacements in the trunk under the false lid). Knock on wood, I've never had anyone baptize my ICE nor this EV, but I have had 1 ask me to pull over to yack on the side of the road (thank heavens) on a Saturday morning ride home from a casino...obviously it had curdled in his gut overnight. I tell people I don't care how much they pay for a cleaning, it will never get the smell out, so please just tell me to pull over and I gladly will.

despite the stereotype of Las Vegas, drunks aren't my biggest problem. It's making people CARRYING booze dump it out before I let them in my car. I put WeatherTech floor mats in anyway, but there is a real resistance to letting go of that $10 drink for most. I'm pretty take-or-leave-it when it comes to riders, I do it for pocket money and to "get out" and meet people while my wife spends time with her cousin etc. I couldn't imagine doing it for a living/income, the pay is just terrible these days.
 

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I could see the utility of a home (24kW?) DCFC if I were an Uber/Lyft driver, and only drove local routes. Other than that scenario, I have no use for one.
I don't have a use for one either, that's why I'd wait a long time for the price to drop.

The scenario is an unforeseen circumstance. Because I only charge about once a week, there's a chance that I might be too low for a sudden need to travel to the next town on the day of or before my next charging day. Some people just plug in every day to always be full for this circumstance. I've chosen not to do that. So my thinking is to skip a conventional EVSE and wait for a residential DCFC. I believe that will be future proofing. The smallest I've see is 11kW up to 19.2kW. Would have to be a unit that can take a single phase input. I've got a 200 amp service in my shop that's begging for this. Then maybe I can justify getting an electric tractor.
 

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I could see the utility of a home (24kW?) DCFC if I were an Uber/Lyft driver, and only drove local routes. Other than that scenario, I have no use for one.
We're not there yet, but I believe there is a crossover point based on the number of EVs that reside in one place. While with one EV it's a no brainer and with two either sharing or multiple EVSEs makes sense, once a household gets to 3 or more EVs used on a regular basis, there is a debate for substituting faster charging for L2 for each vehicle. Typically with longer ranges, the need to recharge each and every night is lessened. Also faster charging facilitates more flexible charging options where a 60 minute charge for example has some real utility.

It may end up being a combination of both: a medium speed DCFC for spot use along with an L2 (or two) for continuous overnight use.

I currently have 5 drivers at my house and 6 cars total. Just looking in my driveway gives me food for thought. Only 1 EV so far, but that may eventually change.

ga2500ev
 
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