[JaxEVLyftUber]

We recently vacationed in the mountains of western North Carolina and used the Bolt


1360.1 miles / 309.4 kWh


We used EA stations in Walterboro, Columbia, Asheville, Commerce, Forsyth, Valdosta, and Lake City. Of those, maybe two were non-derated. That doesn't make a huge difference except for the ones REALLY derated (max charge rate at Lake City was around 20!)



In addition we used a free fast charger near Savannah and an EVGo near Spartanburg


Local driving was covered by free public L2 stations in Sylva, Dillsboro, and Highlands - one a block from one of the hotels we stayed.



Aside from regen, EVs rock on twisty hilly roads...the absence of a transmission and "L"l mode made driving much easier. I don't recall ever using the brake pedal...just the paddle on a couple really steep slopes / turns.


I find long distance 75 mph interstate driving very tedious with the Bolt - having to stop every 60-90 minutes for 30 minutes is a bore, and there are only so many things to look at in a Walmart.


Don't get me wrong - I'm thanking for the EA network; couldn't have made the trip without it - I would just much rather drive 3+ hours on back roads between each charge session, and it would be nice to be able to use more of the battery's capacity, say 10-80% at each stop, but the networks and the Bolt's tapers don't fully support that yet.


Wanna go green (with envy, that is)? Go onto Plugshare and filter everything except Tesla superchargers and then drool over the plugscores (pretty much all 10s) and the charge rates posted by users.


On balance, great trip, aside from losing my wallet (literally, not figuratively)

 

[The Other Tom]

Thanks for the report. Sounds like you came up from the "low state" to the mountains but 4.4 miles/kWh average is pretty good for the overall trip, especially driving at freeway speeds with (I assume) the A/C on.
How was the EA charger at Walterboro? Plugshare seems to indicate it has been reduced to around 24kW.
And which EA charger did you find that wasn't reduced?
FWIW my wife and I drove from upstate South Carolina to Mt. Mitchell last week. Got around 2.0 miles/kWh on the way up but the meter maxed out at 51.1 on the way down. At one point we drove 30 miles but the GOM increased 60 miles. We stopped at the EA at Sam's Club in Asheville which was charging around 45kWh (instead of the full 55).

 

[JaxEVLyftUber]

Freeway mi / kwh was down around 3.75 at 75 mph. AC definitely on. HVAC portion of energy used was 4%, 0% battery conditioning.


EA station Walterboro behaved as a "normal" derate - max rate 44 kW - better than expected given the plugshare report Lake City was the real loser.


Stations Commerce and Forsyth were not derated...I created checkins wherever we stopped.


We had similar experiences in hill country - slow speeds and less / no AC gave up to 6 mi / kWh. Long downhill stretches produced the garbled "252 mi kWh" bars I have read about elsewhere.


As we all know, the GOM is only accurate when driving pattern is consistent.

 

[MikeyBolt]

Fill me in... what is this "derating" that you speak of? I thought just about all EA chargers were 150 or 350A which should make the Bolt charge at it's maximum 55 kW at least on the low end of charge. If there is some sort of derating where it can't charge at it's maximum, I'd have to factor that in (if/when I ever take a long trip which is rare for me).

Thanks,
Mike

 

[GJETSON]

Congratulations! Sounds like you had a good trip. I wish I could interest my wife in doing a road trip with me. I enjoyed my BRP trip, but three days alone was my limit.

You are absolutely right about Tesla envy. Ben Rich is possibly the luckiest guy alive. He is a science teacher, with summers off. I met him for lunch back in 2015 while he charged his Zero electric motorcycle in Waynesboro, Virginia. He was already an EV legend then, having traveled by Vectrix VX-1, an i-Miev, a Volt, and several Zeros. This summer he has already put thousands of miles on his third Zero, and is now in Alberta, Canada, after visiting Glacier Park, in his Model 3.

https://www.facebook.com/BenRidesElectric/

 

[GJETSON]

Fill me in... what is this "derating" that you speak of? I thought just about all EA chargers were 150 or 350A which should make the Bolt charge at it's maximum 55 kW at least on the low end of charge. If there is some sort of derating where it can't charge at it's maximum, I'd have to factor that in (if/when I ever take a long trip which is rare for me).

Thanks,
Mike

The new high power chargers require liquid cooling of the charge cables. The two manufacturers of those cables had problems.

The maker of these cables had problems earlier, which apparently were solved.

https://pcdn.columbian.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1004885052-walmart-charging_04.jpg

The maker of these cables, the ones with a handle built in, is now experiencing problems.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/plugshare.production.photos/photos/435152.jpg

 

[Vertiformed]

The new high power chargers require liquid cooling of the charge cables. The two manufacturers of those cables had problems.

The maker of these cables had problems earlier, which apparently were solved.

The maker of these cables, the ones with a handle built in, is now experiencing problems.

I don't recall seeing any announcements from EA about these new problems, or anything in the press about them. Link to an article or announcement?

 

[JaxEVLyftUber]

I have pointed out to EA that even as new as their stations are, the outer jackets on the cables have turned from black to grey-white on portions exposed to sunlight. This is a bad sign - UV protection may have been omitted in the formulation...my guess is that the sun-exposed jackets may soon exhibit cracking as the sun beats down.


I have also pointed out that they may come to regret omitting canopies over charging stations.


Many (most?) EA stations are presently derated to 50 kW regardless of listed capacity. That has translated to an indicated max rate of 44-45 kW delivered to Bolts at SOC < 50%. That means only a few extra minutes at stations, but it is still annoying.


Uptake has been slow - We never encountered another vehicle using any EA station for the entire trip, and the Plugshare checkins are few.


We are considering an even longer trip in fall - Jax to Boston. On the way up, I'd like to see how much ground we can cover in a day. On the way back, I'd like to run the lengths of both Skyline Drive and the Blue Ridge Parkway.

 

[MikeyBolt]

There is one thing I've never understood about these liquid cooled cables. The car itself is receiving the same current inside the charging port and beyond and the car doesn't need liquid cooled cables. So why does the charging station/cord need them?

Mike

 

[GJETSON]

We are considering an even longer trip in fall - Jax to Boston. On the way up, I'd like to see how much ground we can cover in a day. On the way back, I'd like to run the lengths of both Skyline Drive and the Blue Ridge Parkway.

The interstate is the place for insane speeding. Chill out driving the BRP, and Skyline Drive. It is be the best three days ever spent in a car. Speed limits are 35-45 mph, plus stops for scenic overlooks.

 

[JaxEVLyftUber]

I don't consider myself a timid driver, but in NC hill country I was happy to set cruise 5-10 below speed limit, and I was constantly finding driveways and shoulders to allow others to overtake.


I'm looking forward to SLD and BRP - combination of no transmission, L-mode and cruise control should make for happy driving

 

[GJETSON]

I don't recall seeing any announcements from EA about these new problems, or anything in the press about them. Link to an article or announcement?

Check PlugShare for EA fast chargers with the built-in handle. They have a notice there.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/plugshare.production.photos/photos/438641.jpg

Earlier problem.

https://insideevs.com/news/342427/u...l-150-350-kw-fast-chargers-over-safety-issue/

Current problem.

https://electricrevs.com/2019/06/28...-going-offline-due-to-a-cooling-system-issue/

 

[GJETSON]

I'm looking forward to SLD and BRP - combination of no transmission, L-mode and cruise control should make for happy driving

Yup. GM should give free test drive along there. They would sell some Bolts.

 

[GJETSON]

There is one thing I've never understood about these liquid cooled cables. The car itself is receiving the same current inside the charging port and beyond and the car doesn't need liquid cooled cables. So why does the charging station/cord need them?

Mike

The cables from the socket to the HPDM are about 3 feet...from the HPDM to the battery about 2 feet, and possibly thicker than those in the charger cable. The charger cables are 10-12 feet long. They could do without cooling by increasing cable size, or using silver or gold cables, but I am sure they looked at the trade-offs in price/weight/flexibility.

 

[JaxEVLyftUber]

There is one thing I've never understood about these liquid cooled cables. The car itself is receiving the same current inside the charging port and beyond and the car doesn't need liquid cooled cables. So why does the charging station/cord need them?

Mike

Charge station cables are longer than the conductors within cars, house multiple conductors, and I wouldn't be suprised to hear that conductors within cars, particularly ones higher powered than the Bolt, employ heat sinks and other dissipation techniques. The intermittent nature of hard acceleration and regen events (seconds vs hours) compared to continuous charging figures in as well.



Charge cable conductors are likely optimized / cooled to allow higher currents through a given conductor gauge. The highest capacity chargers to date are 350 kW...at 500 Volts that means 700 Amps...without liquid cooling the cable would be 2-3 inches thick and weigh hundreds of pounds. As it is, the need to operate a liquid cooling system no doubt adds considerable complexity and cost as well as representing a substantial power loss via resistive heating. That probably explains why EA cables are infuriatingly short in nose-to-charger parking arrangements.



EA station cables are already on the ragged edge of what a small / arthritic / elderly driver may be able or willing to handle...I wonder if there will be action taken under ADA law...



Electrifying semis and buses will likely need a voltage increase...I believe the EA station AC - DCconverters are future proofed to 1000 Volts.


Connecting a heavy truck or bus for charging at rates measured in megaWatts will likely involve a cable / connector system with some sort of mechanical assistance or possibly even a robot...unless there is a major breakthrough in contactless / inductive charging.

 

[The Other Tom]

Freeway mi / kwh was down around 3.75 at 75 mph. AC definitely on. HVAC portion of energy used was 4%, 0% battery conditioning.


EA station Walterboro behaved as a "normal" derate - max rate 44 kW - better than expected given the plugshare report Lake City was the real loser.


Stations Commerce and Forsyth were not derated...I created checkins wherever we stopped.


We had similar experiences in hill country - slow speeds and less / no AC gave up to 6 mi / kWh. Long downhill stretches produced the garbled "252 mi kWh" bars I have read about elsewhere.


As we all know, the GOM is only accurate when driving pattern is consistent.

Thanks for the info.

 

[KeithMoon]

Charge station cables are longer than the conductors within cars, house multiple conductors, and I wouldn't be suprised to hear that conductors within cars, particularly ones higher powered than the Bolt, employ heat sinks and other dissipation techniques. The intermittent nature of hard acceleration and regen events (seconds vs hours) compared to continuous charging figures in as well.



Charge cable conductors are likely optimized / cooled to allow higher currents through a given conductor gauge. The highest capacity chargers to date are 350 kW...at 500 Volts that means 700 Amps...without liquid cooling the cable would be 2-3 inches thick and weigh hundreds of pounds. As it is, the need to operate a liquid cooling system no doubt adds considerable complexity and cost as well as representing a substantial power loss via resistive heating. That probably explains why EA cables are infuriatingly short in nose-to-charger parking arrangements.



EA station cables are already on the ragged edge of what a small / arthritic / elderly driver may be able or willing to handle...I wonder if there will be action taken under ADA law...



Electrifying semis and buses will likely need a voltage increase...I believe the EA station AC - DCconverters are future proofed to 1000 Volts.


Connecting a heavy truck or bus for charging at rates measured in megaWatts will likely involve a cable / connector system with some sort of mechanical assistance or possibly even a robot...unless there is a major breakthrough in contactless / inductive charging.

Great explanation and bang on analysis.

My other EV charges at 2800kW continuous (no taper and 4x faster than 350kW) by the way, and it's been doing this for 3+ years and no charger has ever been derated, although in the high temperatures we've had lately (over 100°) it does slow down to around 1000kW (but most of the year it is 2800kW).

So using a different technology (charged medium transfer, rather than in place charging) the problem of charging EVs at rates equal to ICEs has been provably solved for more than 3 years.

 

[GregBrew]

Great explanation and bang on analysis.

My other EV charges at 2800kW continuous (no taper and 4x faster than 350kW) by the way, and it's been doing this for 3+ years and no charger has ever been derated, although in the high temperatures we've had lately (over 100°) it does slow down to around 1000kW (but most of the year it is 2800kW).

So using a different technology (charged medium transfer, rather than in place charging) the problem of charging EVs at rates equal to ICEs has been provably solved for more than 3 years.

There you go, hawking those fool cells again. Will you never learn?

 

[The Other Tom]

My other EV charges at 2800kW continuous (no taper and 4x faster than 350kW)

What is your other EV? 2800kW is 2.8 mega watts.

 

[GregBrew]

What is your other EV? 2800kW is 2.8 mega watts.

He's being cute in order to regurgitate the same "fuel cells are the *only* viable transportation solution" mantra. He's citing the energy equivalent of filling a tank with fossil-fuel derived, difficult to store and rarely available hydrogen.