[PLP]

Hello there, EV fellows.

As the title says.
I am planning on "upgrading" 2014 Fiat 500e. Upgrade is not maybe the best word for it, but I am seeking for something bigger (actually 4 door due to kids) and will larger battery.
On summer 500e is fine (charge it every 3 to 4 days), but winter takes its toll and I am down to every other day charging, if not everyday in some instances.

So, having said that - I am on a market for preferably white, used, with less than 30k miles, LT with convenience and confidence I packages, along with DC charging.
I do not feel like going leather, but the mirror turn signals are nice... I hope that is an easy mod.

I have had Fiat for about 7-8 months now. It is a great car. Small, agile, and darn it - sleeper like.
Also, it has great towing capabilities.
Only if the battery was larger.

For my presence here - I need to learn about some problems with Bolt, some non told stories, any known resolvable problems, and suggestions for purchase. Extended warranty is a need? And such.
I cannot justify spending 32k (OTD) on a brand new one, hoping used will drop to 18k range...

 

[XJ12]

LT with convenience and confidence I packages

thinking that these options were only available for the LT trim starting the 2018 model year.

 

[NY-Rob]

Can't imagine why "upgrade" is not the best word for going from the tiny, limited range 500e to the Bolt?
You will be moving from a 2-door EV with a 24kWh battery to a 4-door 60kWh battery vehicle with over 300mi summertime range.

Best way to learn about the Bolt before you buy one is to just dive in and read the forums...

 

[PLP]

Best way to learn about the Bolt before you buy one is to just dive in and read the forums...

I learnt a lot about its options, capabilities, towing possibilities (I have the HarborFreight 4x8 trailer), and tons of more - but all on paper.
I'd love to have it for a week or so to learn how it handles, how it drives.

Something I did not expect in winter is a lot of wheel spin. Despite having Xice on Fiat it is not so good on grip.
That is due to weight distribution which is perfect for summer and quick turns, but for slippery condition the front becomes too light.

I am digressing.

Anyway, is there anyone in Lansing area whom I could connect to get more "real life" experience? Test drive I had was not long enough to learn a lot.


Oh, and why I would not call it upgrade?
Because Fiat looks better to me. It's smaller, which is a good thing for city driving, lighter, and has the element of surprise.
Yes, it is only 85 kW and 24 kWh battery (realistically the battery is more like 19-20 kWh), but 85 kW is more than enough up to 50 mph.
Also, my point is to get the smallest EV. I do not need Test X, because it is impractical for me. No need to haul 5000 lb car around, if 3000 lb Fiat does the same job for everyday task.

Bolt is the smallest (length wise) that has 4 doors. Except i3 which is kind of weird thing. But it is RWD on the other hand...

 

[wonderbolt]

thinking that these options were only available for the LT trim starting the 2018 model year.

Nope, that is the exact pkgs I got on my 2017 as I did not want leather but did want heated seats and heated steering wheel, as well as the blind side alert and cross traffic alert features. The later add was the "driver confidence II" package which then includes auto braking and auto headlights.

Many 2017 Bolt's came with DCFC, Driver confidence, & Comfort and convenience package.

WRT the OTD price of new, not sure of your tax bracket and state incentives but check out this thread and this site

 

[PLP]

Nope, that is the exact pkgs I got on my 2017 as I did not want leather but did want heated seats and heated steering wheel, as well as the blind side alert and cross traffic alert features. The later add was the "driver confidence II" package which then includes auto braking and auto headlights.

that's what I thought, but I did not want to argue as I could not find specs sheets for 2017

WRT the OTD price of new, not sure of your tax bracket and state incentives but check out this thread and this site

Discounts in MI? Forget... I think the worst state to buy EV in.

 

[Packard V8]

Bolt is the smallest (length wise) that has 4 doors. Except i3 which is kind of weird thing. But it is RWD on the other hand...

Don't rule out a used lease return i3. They're wonderful cars.

The main thing to remember about BEVs is without the weight of an ICE, and the batteries down low, the weight distribution is more equalized and there is less difference in winter traction between RWD and FWD. We drove an i3 with winter tires in the Utah mountains and it did as well as most FWDs. The i3 only weighs 2799 lbs and 48/52 front/rear weight distribution, so it has as much weight on the rear wheels as some FWDs do on the front. For comparison, the Bolt weighs 3563 and the front-to-rear weight distribution of 56/44 percent is better than any small ICE front-drive car.

jack vines

 

[hatchy]

I test drove a 500e when they came out. Almost got one for commuting, they do drive well as does the Bolt. Rear seats are a joke in the 500, pretty much for storage. In teh BOlt they are excellent, can even fit 6+ foot people no problem.

On weight balance I'm not so sure 50/50 is ideal in a FWD.. wouldn't surprise me at all to find out I liked a 60/40 Bolt better than 56/44.

 

[Packard V8]

On weight balance I'm not so sure 50/50 is ideal in a FWD.. wouldn't surprise me at all to find out I liked a 60/40 Bolt better than 56/44.

Yes, for traction in snow, a 60/40 would be better.

No, for spirited driving, throw the 60/40 hard into a tight turn and try to power out; it would understeer, plow and squeal and chew the tread off the front tires.

Maybe, like most things in car design, it's a trade-off.

jack vines

 

[PLP]

So in the end we are looking at 50/50 distribution with AWD lol

Thanks for all the replies.
Yes, I was looking at i3, 94 Ah with extender (just in case I was running out of juice). But then it is still only about 100 miles range and cost is basically same as Bolt, but the car is smaller.

I guess I will be sticking to Chevy for now (meaning waiting for a great deal and convincing my wife that I can change car after less than a year).
What drives me crazy in MI is the sales tax on trade in. They will not use 1:1 for the trade in. Only $3500 of the trade in car's value is allowed to lower your taxable value for the new vehicle. Meaning, you buy car for 30k, the trade in is worth say 10k. One would think - you pay tax on 20k. Nope, not in here. They take 10-3.5=6.5. That means you pay tax on 26.5k...

My little morning rant


Anyway, could someone point me to good threads about two things:

• Premier vs LT (LT with convenience and confidence packages + DC)
• towing with Bolt (mainly wiring for the trailer - it is a bit tricky since I could not find any specific wiring for Bolt).

Thanks for all the replies, again.

 

[hatchy]

Its not rated to tow at all, but it can do it and people do. Legally you may not want expose yourself to that kind of risk/reward even though it can do it fine. Depending on the litigeousness of your locale. If you're near here, rental pickups are down at your home depot for not much.

IMO the LT is the better bargain, coming from somebody with a Premier. All the fancy dodads are nice, but not necessary. A lower bill is nice too!

OT but FWIW had a FWD 65/35 and handled fantastic.

 

[PLP]

Its not rated to tow at all, but it can do it and people do. Legally you may not want expose yourself to that kind of risk/reward even though it can do it fine.

Trailer hitch is a OEM accessory for Bolt that you can even order when building the car... so I'd assume it is rated somehow for towing.

 

[Packard V8]

OT but FWIW had a FWD 65/35 and handled fantastic.

Just wondering if I've ever driven one, so what was this?

jack vines

 

[NY-Rob]

Trailer hitch is a OEM accessory for Bolt that you can even order when building the car... so I'd assume it is rated somehow for towing.

It's only rated for carrying (Bike rack, etc) off the receiver, the Bolt has no official GM tow rating whatsoever.

 

[hatchy]

89 Honda hatch.

IMO if you have zero net worth maybe tow with it. These days there are so many stupid law suits flying, I'd not do it otherwise. Doubly so if you're in Europe/Australia other law heavy places.

 

[zzzing]

Don’t get the OEM (Curt brand) hitch, there are much better choices Draw-tite and others that are much more stable.

Trailer hitch is a OEM accessory for Bolt that you can even order when building the car... so I'd assume it is rated somehow for towing.

 

[cwerdna]

It's only rated for carrying (Bike rack, etc) off the receiver, the Bolt has no official GM tow rating whatsoever.

Well, the official rating is 0 lbs.

I looked in the '17 Bolt manual and it says:
"The vehicle is neither designed nor
intended to tow a trailer"

The '19 has a more stern warning:
"Warning
Never tow a trailer with your
vehicle. It was not designed or
intended to tow a trailer."

 

[cwerdna]

Yes, I was looking at i3, 94 Ah with extender (just in case I was running out of juice). But then it is still only about 100 miles range and cost is basically same as Bolt, but the car is smaller.

I used to follow the happenings with the BMW i3. The i3 REx when I followed was a total POS from a reliability POV. I can never recommend anyone buy or lease one unless you have time for a new "hobby". The pure BEV version seemed more reliable since it didn't have the unreliable REx bits to fail. Some of the non-REx related bits seem to less frequently fail on the BEV, as well. (e.g. restraint system)

I've posted about this at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=521897#p521897. Look at the rest of my posts on that page and the next.

We didn't see this type and frequency of problems on Leafs of similar age and even several years older. I'd been active on MNL since mid-2011.

 

[NY-Rob]

IMO if you have zero net worth maybe tow with it. These days there are so many stupid law suits flying, I'd not do it otherwise.

You know, that is an interesting point.
If you had a properly rated hitch for the load, and the trailer was properly equipped with functioning stop/turn lights and you were not found to be breaking any traffic laws... and say someone rear ended you at a traffic light... I would assume they would still be 100% liable for all damages?

 

[hatchy]

Somebody at fault hits your (perfectly safe and well tested) unrated tow rig, then the trailer flies into another lane and results in a serious injury and/or death. What then? Just wait until some lawyer twist the story all up in legalese. You all are free to do what you like of course, but yeah no thanks. I don't know if you've been paying attention to our legal system over the past few decades but common sense is not guaranteed.

As somebody who personally has small trailers and also has the desire to use them with my Bolt, no thanks I'll use something else.