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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
this product from Clipper creek is great if you are contemplating owning two EV's - these chargers allow two cars to share one 40 amp circuit - so you can plug both cars in and charge from a single 40 amp circuit - read the description for details

https://store.clippercreek.com/new/Share2-HCS-40-Bundle

this is similar in nature to the Tesla HPWC chargers which can have up to 4 chargers sharing a single circuit

a multi-charger setup like this is must have in my opinion if you're going to move in the direction of owning more than one EV - normally the major cost/hassle in installing multiple chargers is finding space/capacity to host addition high amp 240 volt breakers - this approach allows you to have just a single dedicated circuit for car charging and not have the hassle and expense for multiple chargers.
 

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It depends on your situation. We are retired, and have been getting by with the portable cord that came with the car. After several weeks, I did make up an adapter to pull 240 volts from two 120 volt outlets to run it. Once our 240 volt charger station is up and running, the portable will see no use. If we got a second EV, even if one of us was working, and the other was not, we could easily get by with our two options.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
yeah the Tesla chargers at $500 each are a better deal - but I'm simply pointing out options - people still need to be an good consumer and shop for the best price/feature-set…

but for multi-EV households having shared charging infrastructure makes things easier.

just information - no command performance :)
 

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Feed from above

Getting the panel space is a problem here too. I am using one EVS with a 25' cord hung from the ceiling. We have a Bolt and a Leaf so it work really well. Do not know what I would do if we had two Bolt or another car that had the plug in the front left like the Bolt.
 

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I used two JuiceBox Pro 40s and set them up in a load group to use 50A max. Works out nicely. With one car plugged in, it will deliver 40A max. With two cars plugged in, it will share the 50A between each other. The Bolt typically uses 32A max so I find two Bolts still charge reasonably fast.

Note: I don't have two Bolts. Just that I park multiple cars in my driveway. Rather than having to move all my cars around to charge the Bolt, I simply have one charge at the front of the house and the other at the rear of the house connected to the same circuit.
 

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If we got a second Bolt (my wife wants one after seeing mine!) we would just trade off using the one EVSE. Don't really need to charge each one every night.
 

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I used two JuiceBox Pro 40s and set them up in a load group to use 50A max. Works out nicely. With one car plugged in, it will deliver 40A max. With two cars plugged in, it will share the 50A between each other. The Bolt typically uses 32A max so I find two Bolts still charge reasonably fast.

Note: I don't have two Bolts. Just that I park multiple cars in my driveway. Rather than having to move all my cars around to charge the Bolt, I simply have one charge at the front of the house and the other at the rear of the house connected to the same circuit.
Hi. I just got my Bolt and I just received my JuiceBox Pro 40. I'm scheduled with an electrician to install a 14-50 outlet in my garage on a 50 amp circuit. I noted the "load group" capability of the JuiceBox Pro. So my question is - if I get another EV and another JuiceBox Pro, can they somehow share the actual plug using some sort of splitter? What are the cheapest options to share this circuit. I'm trying to think about the nuts and bolts of this setup, assuming the cars are charging side-by-side in my garage. The outlet is a little less than 100 feet (of #6 wire) from the box. I really can't afford to run another wire... Any ideas about this are greatly appreciated.
 

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Probably the least expensive route is to have the wiring that is going to a box with one receptacle now, turned into a junction box by removing the receptacle and running two sets of cables to two new boxes, each with a 14-50R receptacle. If your receptacle box is large enough to allow for two 14-50R receptacles and all of that heavy #6 wire to be joined then you could in theory put two receptacles in one box. Boxes are cheap so I wouldn't try and stuff 3 sets of #6 -3 wire into a box with a receptacle. If you use #6 -4 you definitely would not want to try it. To meet electrical code you should be using #6 -4 even though most EVSE's don't use the neutral wire on a 14-50R receptacle, any one with an RV plugging into the receptacle thinking it will work would fry their electrical equipment.
 

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Probably the least expensive route is to have the wiring that is going to a box with one receptacle now, turned into a junction box by removing the receptacle and running two sets of cables to two new boxes, each with a 14-50R receptacle. If your receptacle box is large enough to allow for two 14-50R receptacles and all of that heavy #6 wire to be joined then you could in theory put two receptacles in one box. Boxes are cheap so I wouldn't try and stuff 3 sets of #6 -3 wire into a box with a receptacle. If you use #6 -4 you definitely would not want to try it. To meet electrical code you should be using #6 -4 even though most EVSE's don't use the neutral wire on a 14-50R receptacle, any one with an RV plugging into the receptacle thinking it will work would fry their electrical equipment.
Query: If you run a single, heavy-gauge (protecting the wires from overheating) cable to a box with two receptacles, you need to "breaker" it to handle 70 amps (charging with two EVSEs at the same time). If using just one EVSE, have you lost a safety mechanism (40 amp breaker) that would protect your investment (EV) in case of surge or overload? Or were you talking about running 100 amp wiring to a sub-panel (not a junction box) and then two lines (each with a DP 40 amp breaker) to two receptacles?
 

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Query: If you run a single, heavy-gauge (protecting the wires from overheating) cable to a box with two receptacles, you need to "breaker" it to handle 70 amps (charging with two EVSEs at the same time). If using just one EVSE, have you lost a safety mechanism (40 amp breaker) that would protect your investment (EV) in case of surge or overload? Or were you talking about running 100 amp wiring to a sub-panel (not a junction box) and then two lines (each with a DP 40 amp breaker) to two receptacles?
Not an electrician, but I would doubt you would lose any protection from surges or overloads. It's a circuit breaker, not a surge protector. I think they're way too slow acting to really protect anything. Rather they're designed more for shorts and other electrical faults downstream of the breaker.

In my case, my electrician ran 6 AWG to the junction box then split it there. I got one JuiceBox attached there. Then the wire continues on to the back of the house to the second JuiceBox. On the other side, I got a single 60A breaker installed into the box. I was told by my electrician that the wire installed should handle up to 55A. But to be sure, I shouldn't exceed 50A. So I got my JuiceBoxes set to 50A max draw across both of them. They'll automatically scale back to stay under 50A collectively. I'll let insurance deal with it if my Bolt gets shocked by lightening surge.
 

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I am assuming that you are using chargers like the Tesla HPWC or the Jukebox Pro 40A that allow two or more chargers (Teslas supports up to 4) to share the same circuit. In the case of the Tesla charger (which I am using) you can set each charger's maximum current delivery based on the vehicle it will be used on and the size of the breaker. It then load shares the single line across both chargers. If you are using two chargers that do not support load sharing, then you need sub panels for each with their own breaker rated for the maximum allowed for that charger and a larger breaker at your main panel. This may not be allowed in some areas by the electrical code. If your main panel has enough breaker space for two breakers then you would have to run two separate lines, each with their own breaker. Going the Tesla or Jusicebox route is less expensive.
 

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Not an electrician, but I would doubt you would lose any protection from surges or overloads. It's a circuit breaker, not a surge protector. I think they're way too slow acting to really protect anything. Rather they're designed more for shorts and other electrical faults downstream of the breaker.

In my case, my electrician ran 6 AWG to the junction box then split it there. I got one JuiceBox attached there. Then the wire continues on to the back of the house to the second JuiceBox. On the other side, I got a single 60A breaker installed into the box. I was told by my electrician that the wire installed should handle up to 55A. But to be sure, I shouldn't exceed 50A. So I got my JuiceBoxes set to 50A max draw across both of them. They'll automatically scale back to stay under 50A collectively. I'll let insurance deal with it if my Bolt gets shocked by lightening surge.
I'm not an electrician but putting a 60A breaker on a line using 50A outlets wouldn't be to code, particularly with wiring that the electricians says shouldn't exceed 50A. What gauge wire did your electrician use and how long is it?

Circuit breakers are designed to protect from currents that exceed the rating of the wires and outlets used, not primarily to protect from shorts or faults.

For example, your typical 120V outlets in your home are rated at 15A and are protected with a 15A breaker. This is true even though most of your 120V circuits have multiple outlets on the same 15A line. You could plug three 8A loads into 3 15A outlets and not exceed the current rating of the outlets but pop the breaker because 24A exceeds the rating of the wiring.

You don't want to put a 30A breaker on circuit with 15A loads because then you could a device or devices that draw 24A and the circuit breaker won't pop despite the wiring only being rated for 15A, that could overheat the wiring and lead to a fire.

If you install a 50A breaker you don't want the continuous draw of both EVSE's (or a single one) to exceed 40A.

Electrical code may have more stringent requirements for two 50A outlets on a single 50A circuit, consult with a licensed electrician.
 

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He used 6 AWG THHN, running 50 feet. My electrician told me 60A is what was required by code here as the installation was required to have 20% extra capacity than what was expected to be the peak load. So 50A socket meant the electrician had to put in 60A. My outlets are 15A rated, but the breakers are all 20A. I do have 2 15A breakers, but those are connected to outdoor outdoor lighting. My dryer is connected to a 30A socket, but has a 40A breaker on it.

Do you think it's possible they made a mistake with this house and I need to get another electrician to take a look at it?
 

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He used 6 AWG THHN, running 50 feet. My electrician told me 60A is what was required by code here as the installation was required to have 20% extra capacity than what was expected to be the peak load. So 50A socket meant the electrician had to put in 60A. My outlets are 15A rated, but the breakers are all 20A. I do have 2 15A breakers, but those are connected to outdoor outdoor lighting. My dryer is connected to a 30A socket, but has a 40A breaker on it.

Do you think it's possible they made a mistake with this house and I need to get another electrician to take a look at it?
You need to get another electrician.

A 50A circuit with a 14-50 outlet is not meant to be used for more than 40A of continuous draw. It requires a 50A breaker. It can be used to draw the full 50A

You don't oversize breakers, you undersize the loads for the rated capacity of the circuit for continuous draw.

Oversizing breakers is a fire hazard

Fundamentals of wiring:
Circuit breaker should match rating of outlets (15A breaker for 15A outlets, 30A breaker for 30A outlets, etc)
Wiring should be rated for at least the size of the breaker/outlets and distance of the run

So thicker wiring than required is fine, thinner wire is not fine, bigger or smaller breakers is not fine and bigger or smaller outlets is not fine.

6 gauge wire is generally fine for a 50A circuit run 50' that you intend to have no more than a 40A continuous load on.

Again, I'm not an electrician, you should consult one as opposed to taking my general advice. Codes vary from locality to locality.
 

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In re-reading your original post and the link to the Clipper Creek units, it appears you aren't installing any 50A outlets. You are going to have two EVSE's direct wired into a 60A circuit.

If that's the case a 60A breaker is appropriate and you want to set the combined draw of the two EVSEs to no more than 48A
 

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I assume your 30A dryer receptacle is the only thing on its circuit. It is poor practice and likely a code and safety issue to use a 40A circuit breaker on a circuit with a 30A outlet.

The usual reason you find an oversized breaker in a panel is some previous homeowner had issues with the breaker popping and instead of figuring out why the load was exceeding the breaker capacity (could just be a defective breaker) they run out and put a bigger breaker in and consider it problem solved, no more breaker popping. But if the reason the breaker is popping is because the dryer is drawing more than 30A of current then the larger breaker is masking the problem and the wiring (including the dryer cord) has the potential to overheat and cause a fire.
 

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In re-reading your original post and the link to the Clipper Creek units, it appears you aren't installing any 50A outlets. You are going to have two EVSE's direct wired into a 60A circuit.

If that's the case a 60A breaker is appropriate and you want to set the combined draw of the two EVSEs to no more than 48A
I am not the OP. I don't have the Clipper Creek Units. I got the JuiceBoxes.

I asked the electrician to see what he says. The response I got is that all the 120V outlets in this house are 20A outlets. That's why they have a weird notch on one of the holes. So that's not only to code, but was inspected when the house was built so I don't need to worry about it. Secondly, he stated that the two outlets he put outside the house for the EVSE are 50A outlets. So he has to put in 60A breakers. Since they're designated as special use outlets, apparently he can put both on the same circuit. The panel only has 70A coming in from the EV meter so he wired it this way. Otherwise, I would need a whole new service line or something. Also the whole system passed inspection so that I don't need to worry.

Does that sound reasonable? If not, I'll get another electrician to take a look first thing on Monday. Thanks for your help btw. I really appreciate it.


I assume your 30A dryer receptacle is the only thing on its circuit. It is poor practice and likely a code and safety issue to use a 40A circuit breaker on a circuit with a 30A outlet.

The usual reason you find an oversized breaker in a panel is some previous homeowner had issues with the breaker popping and instead of figuring out why the load was exceeding the breaker capacity (could just be a defective breaker) they run out and put a bigger breaker in and consider it problem solved, no more breaker popping. But if the reason the breaker is popping is because the dryer is drawing more than 30A of current then the larger breaker is masking the problem and the wiring (including the dryer cord) has the potential to overheat and cause a fire.
Dryer is the only thing on the circuit. Sole owner of the house so whatever is in there was in there from the beginning. No changing of breaker or anything.


EDIT: Screw it. I'm calling another electrician first thing Monday and just having the whole house circuits inspected. Going to cost quite a bit but nothing beats safety. Thanks for brinigng this issue up to me sparkyps. I would have never realized if it weren't for you.
 

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I am not the OP. I don't have the Clipper Creek Units. I got the JuiceBoxes.

I asked the electrician to see what he says. The response I got is that all the 120V outlets in this house are 20A outlets. That's why they have a weird notch on one of the holes. So that's not only to code, but was inspected when the house was built so I don't need to worry about it. Secondly, he stated that the two outlets he put outside the house for the EVSE are 50A outlets. So he has to put in 60A breakers. Since they're designated as special use outlets, apparently he can put both on the same circuit. The panel only has 70A coming in from the EV meter so he wired it this way. Otherwise, I would need a whole new service line or something. Also the whole system passed inspection so that I don't need to worry.

Does that sound reasonable? If not, I'll get another electrician to take a look first thing on Monday. Thanks for your help btw. I really appreciate it


Dryer is the only thing on the circuit. Sole owner of the house so whatever is in there was in there from the beginning. No changing of breaker or anything.


EDIT: Screw it. I'm calling another electrician first thing Monday and just having the whole house circuits inspected. Going to cost quite a bit but nothing beats safety. Thanks for brinigng this issue up to me sparkyps. I would have never realized if it weren't for you.
You said 50A outlets, are they actual outlets (receptacles) or are your JuiceBoxes directly wired into the circuit? If they are actual outlets then I'm still convinced that is a code violation, don't accept "It's OK, it was inspected", ask for the section of the NEC that permits two 50A outlets on a 60A circuit. If they are direct wired then it might well meet code, I'm certainly not that familiar with electrical code. But even if it meets code you shouldn't draw more than 48A continuous from that circuit so set your JuiceBoxes to that instead of 50A.

A 30A dryer outlet with a 40A breaker is pretty clearly a code violation. A single receptacle on a branch circuit cannot be smaller capacity than the circuit. So 40A breaker and wiring requires a 40A circuit. Fixed by putting in a 30A breaker. Your electrician might say "everyone does it, no big deal" but unless he can point to a section of the NEC that says it is is permissible then it isn't. But then again maybe it was legal when your home was constructed or maybe someone put in a 40A circuit breaker because they didn't have a 30A handy, 40A is typically used for air conditioning circuits as there aren't any 40A household receptacles that I'm aware of. Again, the electrician might say "No big deal" or "It was inspected" but inspectors miss things and the wiring might be sufficient for 40A of current it still isn't what it should be (a 30A breaker).

The code also alows multiple 15A receptacles on a 20A circuit so even if your 120V outlets were 15A outlets that would be OK, but it doesn't allow multiple 30A or 50A outlets on a circuit that is higher amperage such as two 50A outlets on a 60A circuit AFAIK.
 

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You don't want to put a 30A breaker on circuit with 15A loads because then you could a device or devices that draw 24A and the circuit breaker won't pop despite the wiring only being rated for 15A, that could overheat the wiring and lead to a fire.
It is perfectly acceptable to plug in a device that draws less than the maximum load the breaker can handle. Look around and tell me how many devices in the room you are in draw the full 15A of the breaker on the circuit they are plugged in to. Think your cell phone charger draws 15A @ 120V? Your computer? TV? Lamp?

The key is the breaker needs to be sized to protect the wire in the circuit. The relevant parts of your statement are in bold.

As far as multiple outlets for EVSE's on a single 240V circuit, how many 15A rated outlets are on a typical 120V 15A circuit? More than one?
If you plug more devices in than the circuit will support, the breaker will trip. Try running 2 hair dryers in the same bathroom.

2 properly configured EVSE's on the same circuit will not exceed it's capacity and be no problem. Improperly configured, they will trip the breaker on a properly designed circuit.
 
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