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Discussion Starter #1
...believe it's their civic duty to warn me of the dangers of EV's.

They have been providing this public service for me since 2012, when we got the Volt and were warned
that our house would burn to the ground if we parked it in the garage.

Today, I received a text with this link: Here’s What Happens When a “Green” Car Catches Fire

The friend who is so concerned for my safety happens to drive a VW ScandalWagon...uhh, I mean VW Jetta TDi wagon and a '02 Escalade (that was recalled twice due to something about fuel leaks and fires..). I carefully watched the video and read the article dated yesterday, 2/6, which retold events surrounding a Tesla S fire in Austria that happened early last Fall.

It was disconcerting to see the terrorism-style aftermath of this event unfold before my very eyes. Although I have personally witnessed at least two dozen ICEv fires in my lifetime, and no EV fires, the story was very compelling. I didn't knw that "green" cars will require a bevy of firefighters in "severe" SCUBA gear to battle the resultant 4-Alarm blaze. Plus, the toxic fumes from the EV fire may cause entire populations to be evacuated. And to my utter disbelief; EV's evidently "don’t pull electricity out of mid-air".

Gott im Himmel!!

I found the raw video of the event

I am still amazed that 35 firefighters can fit into 2 fire trucks! Those Austrians are sooo efficient.

I'm trying to find a way to thank my buddy for the lifesaving heads up. I fancy myself a rather clever wordsmith, but honestly I am at a loss for words.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Wow what fake news! Right wing anti eco anti left fear mongering web site. Seen that austrian video before. Nothing special. I have seen much worse that in ICE car fires. If you think firefighters dont have to suite up to fight an ice fire, may I introduce you to a firefighter!

Simple answer, Stored energy is stored enegry. Failure of such will have ramifications. Know them and be prepared.

Come up with how many people have died in ice car fires vs how many in a BEV battery fires.

https://insideevs.com/op-ed-top-10-causes-of-automobile-fires-ev-vs-ice/
 

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The phrase neocon is partially derived from the word conservative, meaning to preserve the way things are. Conservatives are almost by definition the group who is comfortable with the way things are, and believe change is dangerous. The slogan "Make America great again" suggests that the way things were, was great. The slogan "Hope and Change" suggests things could be better. Of course, both ideas are right. Things are pretty great how they are now, and the way we have done things in the past has worked. There are great things about "now" that are worth preserving. Then again, things could be better, and that requires risk. If we change things, we might have better, or we might have worse. The conservative prefers to err on the side of caution, and the progressive prefers to err on the side of risk.

The far right holds no monopoly on the lack of basic physics understanding and misplaced worry; it's a human trait. News becomes news because of the rarity of occurrence. Unfortunately we place our attention on the latest thing to worry about rather than devote appropriate attention to the most likely threats. Most of us will die of cardiovascular disease or cancer. The news is not reporting this, and we aren't interested. Rather than eat healthy and exercise, we worry about the IIHS safety rating of vehicles, diesel-gate, and other things that, while are important, aren't likely to affect us in any measurable way.

I'll point out that many on the far left hold the belief that global warming is the single biggest issue facing humanity, when it's nowhere near the biggest problem.

Perhaps out of biological necessity, it's more important that our tribe win than to be right (hold true beliefs). Due to the complexity of most every issue, it's much easier to assume your tribe collectively has thought the problem out sufficiently, and continue to pledge support. Our investment into our tribes make us unwilling to hear and consider the beliefs of opposing tribes.

I'd probably reply with a funny meme of a petrol powered car going off a cliff and exploding into flames at the bottom, just like every Hollywood movie. It emphasises the obvious, that gasoline is flammable, and that any one depiction of an event does not sufficiently predict the likelihood of that occurring.

 

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Maybe I’m missing something, what about this car fire was so remarkable?

Car caught fire, firefighters quickly put it out. Actually, one firefighter put it out, in about five seconds.

Yes, electric cars can catch fire, just like ICE cars.

However, no exploding gas tank.

What’s Hollywood going to do once EVs replace ICE cars?

Car goes over cliff, and only catches fire?

Boring!

As for NeoCons, stupidity is bi-partisan.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Find some better friends?
I will take that under advisement. However I run the risk of living in an echo chamber of the like-minded. These guys (and they are all guys) mean well. I have long since abandoned the possibility that I can single handedly open their views on certain issues.

Perhaps out of biological necessity, it's more important that our tribe win than to be right (hold true beliefs). Due to the complexity of most every issue, it's much easier to assume your tribe collectively has thought the problem out sufficiently, and continue to pledge support. Our investment into our tribes make us unwilling to hear and consider the beliefs of opposing tribes.

I'd probably reply with a funny meme of a petrol powered car going off a cliff and exploding into flames at the bottom, just like every Hollywood movie. It emphasises the obvious, that gasoline is flammable, and that any one depiction of an event does not sufficiently predict the likelihood of that occurring.
I'm all in with you Tribe theory. But we all belong to multiple tribes; major tribes, minor tribes, sub-tribes, and tribes within tribes. I count myself as a member of the EV tribe, and a member of the Bolt tribe (a sub-tribe), but not of the Tesla tribe (another sub-tribe) for example. What I find confounding sometimes is just where one draws the line when two tribes they participate in conflict with one another.

Many of my Neocon friends and I share a passion for personal money management, cost savings, cord-cutting, reducing dependence on middle East resources, supporting domestic companies first, etc. EV's in general satisfy All of the above, and Tesla's Model 3 in particular, is (will be one day anyway) the most American made car. Cord-cutting is a mirror image of cutting the gas hose at the pump. Why the hate for EV's?

BTW, my draft response:

"This is inevitable when you're carrying around over a dozen gallons of explosive and flammable fuel, which is being pumped at very high pressure into an motor that generates massive heat by literally detonating and exploding that fuel in small chambers to provide momentum. Throw in the voltage associated with a car's electrical systems, a battery with enough power (300 to 1000 Amps at 0°F.) to start the engine, and, you know, a cigarette lighter and pack of Marlboros."

No wait, that's not an EV :)
 

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However I run the risk of living in an echo chamber of the like-minded. These guys (and they are all guys) mean well. I have long since abandoned the possibility that I can single handedly open their views on certain issues.
Precisely why it's better to be acquaintances with those who hold differing views (which is everyone, BTW). I'd say it's at least as important to understand where someone else is coming from than to be heard. You've got to understand the opposition before you can hope to win it over, and at the very least it reinforces your beliefs having considered the most critical opposition, and to have maintained your convictions.

I'm all in with you Tribe theory. But we all belong to multiple tribes; major tribes, minor tribes, sub-tribes, and tribes within tribes. I count myself as a member of the EV tribe, and a member of the Bolt tribe (a sub-tribe), but not of the Tesla tribe (another sub-tribe) for example. What I find confounding sometimes is just where one draws the line when two tribes they participate in conflict with one another.
Either tribes haven't really welcomed me in, or I don't have much interest in identifying with a tribe; likely a combination of both. For this reason, I've always found it easy to disagree with those I associate with. I'll side with whomever is right. In fact, I tend to be most critical of those I hold in highest regard because I care about them. That isn't to say I lack loyalty; to the contrary once someone has proven to be right and good so consistently, I am quite loyal to them and their cause.

Many of my Neocon friends and I share a passion for personal money management, cost savings, cord-cutting, reducing dependence on middle East resources, supporting domestic companies first, etc. EV's in general satisfy All of the above, and Tesla's Model 3 in particular, is (will be one day anyway) the most American made car. Cord-cutting is a mirror image of cutting the gas hose at the pump. Why the hate for EV's?
From your lens, EVs are a superior form of transportation for all the reasons given. From the lens of most everyone else, EVs are quite inferior, and the sales figures reflect this. People aren't crazy to think EVs are inferior either. In fact, it's quite easy to see why someone would think that spending $10,000+ on a what is essentially a fuel tank, (battery) that provides less range, and extremely slow filling is crazy.

Perhaps your friend sent the EV fire story not out of real concern for safety, but as a way to make fun of your assumption that EVs are great (and their skepticism). The best way to win someone over is to learn what is important to them, validate their values, and then show them how your position best aligns with their values. Finding common ground is the starting point of convincing someone that there is a better idea. Your example of agreeing with your friends that reducing dependence on foreign oil is important is a great starting point.
 

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you can't fix stupid.

Imagine the response of people who found out I cancelled my model 3 order and bought a bolt.

my favorite was 'gm loses $9000 on every one' and i'm like, uh, 9k more for me?

it's an interesting thing us humans do, we get so invested in things we have to fight vs just be please other people are pleased. weird stuff.

Honestly if my bolt ever caught first my thoughts would be 'cool, new car for free from Chevy' not much else :D
 

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...believe it's their civic duty to warn me of the dangers of EV's.

They have been providing this public service for me since 2012, when we got the Volt and were warned
that our house would burn to the ground if we parked it in the garage.

Today, I received a text with this link: Here’s What Happens When a “Green” Car Catches Fire

The friend who is so concerned for my safety happens to drive a VW ScandalWagon...uhh, I mean VW Jetta TDi wagon and a '02 Escalade (that was recalled twice due to something about fuel leaks and fires..). I carefully watched the video and read the article dated yesterday, 2/6, which retold events surrounding a Tesla S fire in Austria that happened early last Fall.

It was disconcerting to see the terrorism-style aftermath of this event unfold before my very eyes. Although I have personally witnessed at least two dozen ICEv fires in my lifetime, and no EV fires, the story was very compelling. I didn't knw that "green" cars will require a bevy of firefighters in "severe" SCUBA gear to battle the resultant 4-Alarm blaze. Plus, the toxic fumes from the EV fire may cause entire populations to be evacuated. And to my utter disbelief; EV's evidently "don’t pull electricity out of mid-air".

Gott im Himmel!!

I found the raw video of the event
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYKTTCNUV3o

I am still amazed that 35 firefighters can fit into 2 fire trucks! Those Austrians are sooo efficient.

I'm trying to find a way to thank my buddy for the lifesaving heads up. I fancy myself a rather clever wordsmith, but honestly I am at a loss for words.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
WOW!!! I am so glad I saw that!! I had NO idea!!! I'm gong to sell my Bolt tomorrow!!!! :eek:

:x

I don't know what to tell your friends because I have the same friends. All I can say is there is a tremendous amount of anti EV propaganda our there that comes from "reputable" sources that makes life difficult for us. I don't even blame your friends. They have been fed for years now the horrors of electric cars. I can understand why they might feel this way.

I think I would search and find as many videos, or photos on the net you can find and have the time for, of ICE powered cars on fire and send that to them. The fires look 100% the same as the Tesla video. I'm certain you could find at least 100 videos and photos of ICE powered cars on fire from accidents, or malfunction.
 

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You might point out to your neo-con friends that the Bolt holds energy approximately equal to 2 gallons of gasoline when fully charged. If he is afraid of 2 gallons of gas, perhaps he should reconsider his ICE and get a horse (Which is probably the most dangerous form of transportation every used on a large scale!). Of course it's a stupid argument but it might appeal a simplistic mind set.
 

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You might point out to your neo-con friends that the Bolt holds energy approximately equal to 2 gallons of gasoline when fully charged. If he is afraid of 2 gallons of gas, perhaps he should reconsider his ICE and get a horse (Which is probably the most dangerous form of transportation every used on a large scale!). Of course it's a stupid argument but it might appeal a simplistic mind set.
Yeah, my Bolt holds about the same equivalent amount of gasoline as my riding lawn mower.
 

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I like plugging my car in to recharge just like a cell phone. I don't miss the gas pumps but I still have to visit once in a while when I fill up the wife's van. What we have here is not political its just plain ignorance. It takes all types to make the world go around. I got all the "gas" I need right at my house..LOL.
 

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I'll point out that many on the far left hold the belief that global warming is the single biggest issue facing humanity, when it's nowhere near the biggest problem.
Humanity's single biggest problem is humanity. We have been our single worst threat for 10K years, and that has not changed. Climate change is just one of dozens of environmental problems we have created. We have been wiping out species, changing continents, and regional climate for thousands of years. The difference is that in the last 200 years fossil fuels have allowed us to leverage our impact by orders of magnitude.
 
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