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Discussion Starter #1
At 83k, it was finally time to ditch the OEM tires. Getting that many miles out of original tires is proof I drive quite gently (most of the time, anyway)

Yesterday I bought a set of Bridgestone Turanza QuietTracks.

And quiet they are, but I sure seem to have taken a heckuva efficiency hit. My lifetime dashboard efficiency average is 4.81 mi / kWh since most of my driving is in warm flat Florida at around-town speeds - more evidence of my conservative driving style.

Yesterday's driving characteristics (even less freeway than usual) should have resulted in a daily calculated efficiency in the 5.0 - 5.25 range, but all I got was 4.21.
Midday, I aired them up to sidewall max (50 psig) - that seemed to help, but not much

Yikes - I sure hope these tires get better with age!
 

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There are a few threads on this topic, but it seems that most alternative tires to the Bolt or Volt Michelin lrr tires take a hit compared to stock.

Your new tires will take a few hundred miles to break in but I will be surprised if you get back to OEM tire efficiency.

Sorry to say...

 

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Same with other cars, the stock tires should get you the EPA rated efficiency or better but expect MPG to fall once you replace it with a new set that has better grip.
 

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Fortunately, you live in a warm climate where even a loss of efficiency to 4.1 mi/kWh will still result in excellent range. Here in the northeast, where winter range can drop to 150 miles on a full charge, a 20% loss could be a big problem.
 

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I'm afraid you learned the lesson the hard way. The OEM tires are designed for a purpose - to maximize mileage. Perhaps go back to them after another 80K on these...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
There was a WIRED article about how quiet the Bridgestones are and therefore such a great match for very quiet electric vehicles. The quiet part turned out to be very much true - the quiet is noticeable and wonderful - I'm now able to conduct a hands-free speakerphone conversation much more easily while at speed along a 3 mile concrete bridge I cross several times daily, and the Bridgestones soak up pavement irregularities, manhole covers and the like with much more aplomb than the OEM tires

In the course of managing my HVAC biz and 150+ daily miles of UberLyft driving, kid shuffling, etc, I'm in the car 8-12 hours per day...quiet is good, and I was willing to eat a 5-10% mileage hit, but not 20%.

Jack V - I have a million+ mile history spanning 3+ decades running car tires at sidewall max; sometimes even 5-10% higher, in pursuit of fuel economy and longevity. That has worked for me - Getting 83k out of the OEMs is, from what I've read, basically unheard of, and that came about in part because I ran them at sidewall max plus 10% for quite awhile during their prime...though during their last 20k miles I let the pressure slowly naturally decay to lower 40s.

Elevated tire pressures do result in harsher ride over rough pavement, but the reduced contact patch area increases efficiency and also helps reduce vulnerability to hydroplaning during heavy rain / roadway water ponding incidents - higher pressure provides more force to drive standing water out from under the tire via the tread grooves.

Overinflation is widely said to cause center of tire tread to prematurely wear relative to edges, but I have never experienced that outcome even with tires operated 10% over max sidewall for 10s of thousands of miles.

All that said, having spent $982 on these tires, I'm stuck with them until they wear out...I just didn't expect tire choice to cause such a hit on efficiency.,,live and learn!

I do wonder if there is an effect wherein all tires yield better efficiency as they wear down - there is less flex in the tread elements as they become progressively shallower, and in that lowered flex less opportunity for friction losses...would an optimized tire replacement strategy be to seek (at presumably much lower cost) used tires already at least half worn?
 

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There was a WIRED article about how quiet the Bridgestones are and therefore such a great match for very quiet electric vehicles. The quiet part turned out to be very much true - the quiet is noticeable and wonderful - I'm now able to conduct a hands-free speakerphone conversation much more easily while at speed along a 3 mile concrete bridge I cross several times daily, and the Bridgestones soak up pavement irregularities, manhole covers and the like with much more aplomb than the OEM tires

In the course of managing my HVAC biz and 150+ daily miles of UberLyft driving, kid shuffling, etc, I'm in the car 8-12 hours per day...quiet is good, and I was willing to eat a 5-10% mileage hit, but not 20%.

Jack V - I have a million+ mile history spanning 3+ decades running car tires at sidewall max; sometimes even 5-10% higher, in pursuit of fuel economy and longevity. That has worked for me - Getting 83k out of the OEMs is, from what I've read, basically unheard of, and that came about in part because I ran them at sidewall max plus 10% for quite awhile during their prime...though during their last 20k miles I let the pressure slowly naturally decay to lower 40s.

Elevated tire pressures do result in harsher ride over rough pavement, but the reduced contact patch area increases efficiency and also helps reduce vulnerability to hydroplaning during heavy rain / roadway water ponding incidents - higher pressure provides more force to drive standing water out from under the tire via the tread grooves.

Overinflation is widely said to cause center of tire tread to prematurely wear relative to edges, but I have never experienced that outcome even with tires operated 10% over max sidewall for 10s of thousands of miles.

All that said, having spent $982 on these tires, I'm stuck with them until they wear out...I just didn't expect tire choice to cause such a hit on efficiency.,,live and learn!

I do wonder if there is an effect wherein all tires yield better efficiency as they wear down - there is less flex in the tread elements as they become progressively shallower, and in that lowered flex less opportunity for friction losses...would an optimized tire replacement strategy be to seek (at presumably much lower cost) used tires already at least half worn?
Tire related efficiency will improve slightly over the first few hundred to 1000 miles and then pretty much hold steady. The mold release agent is impregnated into the surface layer of the tires, and as that outer layer wears off you will see some GOM gains.

Keith
 

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Jack V - I have a million+ mile history spanning 3+ decades running car tires at sidewall max; sometimes even 5-10% higher, in pursuit of fuel economy and longevity. That has worked for me - Getting 83k out of the OEMs is, from what I've read, basically unheard of, and that came about in part because I ran them at sidewall max plus 10% for quite awhile during their prime...though during their last 20k miles I let the pressure slowly naturally decay to lower 40s.
None may dispute your Lyft/Uber experience or your opinion, but we may discuss why do the tire manufacturers bother molding a maximum pressure on the tire sidewall? Here's from one OEM tire website:

What happens if you inflate your tires to the max PSI?
  • Do not exceed the maximum inflation pressure shown on the tire sidewall. Inflate to the PSI found on the sticker inside the driver’s door of your vehicle or in owner’s manual. DO NOT inflate to the maximum PSI on your tire’s sidewall.
  • Overinflated tires (over the maximum molded on the tire sidewall) are more likely to be cut, punctured or damaged by sudden impact from hitting an obstacle, such as a pothole.
  • The handling characteristics change
    Since tires inflated to the max can’t give as much on the sidewall, you might see superior cornering, but it could be at the risk of your braking threshold. One quick corner and your back end could slide out.
  • The life of your tire decreases. When your tires are inflated too much, the rubber rounds out at the top of the tire when you’re driving, and the center will quickly wear out. You’ll also reduce your traction and you could even cause a blowout.
That's the manufacturer's recommendation, but once the tires are on, it's your car, your tires, your decision, but not everyone will agree with max pressure +10%.

jack vines
 

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In the past, I tried polling the readers about their experiences with other "summer" tires besides the OEM Michelin brand with little luck. All had some kind of drawback that ruled them out (example: side wall bubbles, etc). I finally decided just to replace ours with more Michelins. After all, my other maintenance expenses are virtually nil.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I don't pay much attention to the GOM, but I spreadsheet efficiency of every charge. Occasionally I keep open the 50 mile history efficiency screen and have a good sense of what I'll get out of a given set of inputs (mostly speed, with a certain amount of HVAC and an occasional jot of bettery conditioning when it is super hot out). My terrain is basically flat, so that huge variable is basically null.

I knew I was in trouble with the Bridgestones within a mile or two of leaving the tire shop. Airing them up to sidewall max 50.000 (not a molecule more, I promise...) helped, but only slightly.

A couple hours spent surfing today suggests that the OEM Michelins still have the lowest rolling resistance. I think I can skip the self-sealing variant since I do now carry a spare.

It also looks like Bridgestone has a 90 day trial period, so I will definitely see if I can undo my blunder at minimal cost...
 

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https://www.consumerreports.org/tires/low-rolling-resistance-tires-can-save-you-money-at-pump/ is a Consumer Reports article about what they measured for rolling resistance for performance all-season tires. Unfortunately, the OEM Michelin Energy Saver A/S is not in this group, nor is the Bridgestone Turanza QuietTrack. But if you do not want the OEM tires again, you may want to consider some of the ones at the top of the chart in the linked article if you are concerned about rolling resistance / economy / range.
 

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It took 300 miles for my OEM tires to break-in.
I an replacing them with the same tires, without the sealing goo.

The Bridgestone Turanza QuietTracks are not LRR tires and will not deliver the
the same range performance as the Michelin A/S Energy Savers can.
 

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I wish I could have warned you. I tried those tires when they first came out and yes, they were awful on range. I put about 5,000 miles on them before returning them to Costco and getting the Ecopedia EP422+. I found the 422+ to be just a quiet, however they do not grip the road as well, but much better then the OEM. With the 422+ I get about 95% of the efficiency I got with the OEM and hopefully a longer wear life.

My biggest concern with the lost of range was lowering the overall lifespan of the battery. In theory if you get 20% worse range, then the battery could degrade 20% faster. That 20% hit could be felt more then just at the plug.

The QuietTracks are great tires, just not for EV’s. After that experience, I will only look at LRR tires moving forward.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
MTM - exactly. Tire installer has ordered me OEM Michelins. I've opted out of the run flat - saves 2 pounds and $30 per tire, and I carry an aftermarket donut spare.

They say they are on the hook for the Bridgestone satisfaction guarantee...that seems odd, and if true I feel bad...then again we've bought all our tires their for years and years, and that extends to my HVAC company - 9 more vehicles there...they've done all right by me.

drdiesel - I have 600+ miles on the Quietracks - still seeing 20% lower mi / kWh
 

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I am coming up on first tire replacement time at 25K with my '19 Bolt. Amazing that you drive U/L and got that kind of mileage. Hats off. I should note that I live in an area with windy roads, ups and downs, debris often on road, and the avg life expectancy of tires is about 25K. Plus I drive the car a touch aggressively when doing pickups (I do U/L as well).

I perused the tire threads here to come up with a good value replacement tire that hits all the notes. Living on the coast of California I was steered to look for a Summer Low Rolling Resistance tire, but it does not seem to exist yet. (??)

So the search pulled me to the Continental Purecontact LS Grand Touring All Season tire. Cheaper than the stock tires. There was a post here where these tires got a thumbs up, and only ~5% range loss.

I have to say though my move away from the stock Michelin's, besides price, given how often I may have to replace tires, was to get away from the self-sealing aspect of the stock tire. However, I just picked up a nail and the tire behaved differently than I assumed it would have. My fear was that the tire would just self-seal, no loss of PSI, and I'd be driving around unaware that the nail was there. Don't like that notion. But indeed the tire did bleed air. An indicator lit up on the dash saying so. This just happened the other day. So I pulled the nail and waited a day before remounting the wheel to see if the tire would self-seal. Overnight the tire maintained its pressure. Rather impressive, so I am looking back at maybe just purchasing the Michelin's again. I'm going to keep an eye on the tire pressure over the next few days to see if it holds, but regardless I'm seeing some value to self-seal tires at this point.
 

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I am a spirited driver, and got 31K out of the OEM tires in the northeast, but they slipped ALL THE TIME. Wouldn't buy them again no matter what. I purchased a compressor (one that clips onto the 12v battery, not a cigarette lighter toy one) and a can of tire sealer. Then I purchased Vredestein Quatrac 5 all season tires that ARE low rolling resistance. Now keep in mind that new tires are heavier, have wider diameter (if the tread depth declines, so does the diameter and the weight), and I took no noticeable hit on range. See the below thread on rolling resistance. BTW, these tires handle well, and get great scores from Consumer Reports and Tire Rack. The one down side is projected low treadwear rating, but their low price offsets that. I have them on 2 cars now and will buy them again barring unforseen issues.
 
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