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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys !

I've personally never owned a fully electric vehicle, nor do I really know much about them..

However, I'm really interested in the Chevy Bolt and the Tesla Model 3.

But seeing how long the Model 3 is going to take to come out, I'm totally leaning towards the Bolt.

Anyone else feel the same ?
 

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Welcome to the EV World!

I'm with you - due to the lengthy wait for a Model 3, I'm planning on buying or leasing a Chevy Bolt as soon as I can get one. Then, after the probable 2-3 year wait for the general availability of the Tesla Model 3 (I did not put down a deposit for one), I will re-evaluate the Tesla at that time. (Unless I have an unexpected financial windfall and I can afford a Model S by then ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ah the Model S, so gorgeous ! But definitely, I would like to see owner reviews and what not from the Model 3 and consider the switch after that. Have you had any experiences with any other electric vehicles ?
 

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I leased a 2013 Nissan Leaf for 2 years - overall I was pretty satisfied with the car. However, my commute was at the edge of the vehicle's range - especially in the Winter - I couldn't get but around 60-65 miles in 20 degree (F) weather.
I'm driving an ICE vehicle at this time. And I feel pretty wasteful driving it - burning gas while idling, no energy recoup while braking or downhill... I really enjoyed trying to get all I could out of the Leaf and I miss that aspect of EV driving. I considered getting a used Leaf (2013 can be had for $8K-$9K around here), but I've decided to wait for the Bolt - I hope it doesn't take too long to get to Georgia!
 

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Ah the Model S, so gorgeous ! But definitely, I would like to see owner reviews and what not from the Model 3 and consider the switch after that. Have you had any experiences with any other electric vehicles ?
Electro,
I've driven most every current EV available, and I have a few more options than you do in Georgia. I've also driven some not currently available and lease one of the 1,100 Honda Fit EV's produced.

BEV's:
BMW i3
Chevy Spark EV
Fiat 500e
Ford Focus Electric
Kia Soul EV
Mercedes B-Class Electric
Mitsibishi i MiEV
Nissan LEAF
Smart fortwo ED
Tesla Model S
Volkswagon e-Golf

PHEV's
Chevy Volt
BMW i3 REx
Cadillac ELR
Audi A3 e-Tron
BMW X5 xDrive40e
Ford C-Max Energi
Ford Fusion Energi
Hyundai Sonata Plug-in Hybrid
Volvo XC90 T8 Hybrid

Plug-ins I've yet to drive:
Tesla Model X
any Tesla with Ludicrous mode
BMW i8
BMW 330e
Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid
Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid

I organize one of the National Drive Electric Week events every year and work closely with dealers to facilitate test drives at the event. I also work with and see many owners and am involved with my local chapter of the Electric Auto Association.
https://driveelectricweek.org/
http://www.electricauto.org/default.asp?

NDEW is in September and is a fantastic opportunity to talk to owners with experience driving EV's. Last year the owners that attending had logged (collectively) over 1 million miles driving on electric. Go to the website and find one near you (there were over 200 last year around the world). Many ffer test drives from dealers and/or ride'n'drives from owners.

 

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It would be great if Chevy is willing to lend you a Bolt EV for next year's National Drive Electric Week. And I'm just slightly envious of your long list of test driven EV vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I leased a 2013 Nissan Leaf for 2 years - overall I was pretty satisfied with the car. However, my commute was at the edge of the vehicle's range - especially in the Winter - I couldn't get but around 60-65 miles in 20 degree (F) weather.
I'm driving an ICE vehicle at this time. And I feel pretty wasteful driving it - burning gas while idling, no energy recoup while braking or downhill... I really enjoyed trying to get all I could out of the Leaf and I miss that aspect of EV driving. I considered getting a used Leaf (2013 can be had for $8K-$9K around here), but I've decided to wait for the Bolt - I hope it doesn't take too long to get to Georgia!
Oh nice ! That's actually not too bad given the variables you were dealing with, what about in the better weather ? Was your range longer ? But I definitely see where you're coming from about the wasteful feeling... I hate driving my gas vehicle too for those same reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Electro,
I've driven most every current EV available, and I have a few more options than you do in Georgia. I've also driven some not currently available and lease one of the 1,100 Honda Fit EV's produced.

BEV's:
BMW i3
Chevy Spark EV
Fiat 500e
Ford Focus Electric
Kia Soul EV
Mercedes B-Class Electric
Mitsibishi i MiEV
Nissan LEAF
Smart fortwo ED
Tesla Model S
Volkswagon e-Golf

PHEV's
Chevy Volt
BMW i3 REx
Cadillac ELR
Audi A3 e-Tron
BMW X5 xDrive40e
Ford C-Max Energi
Ford Fusion Energi
Hyundai Sonata Plug-in Hybrid
Volvo XC90 T8 Hybrid

Plug-ins I've yet to drive:
Tesla Model X
any Tesla with Ludicrous mode
BMW i8
BMW 330e
Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid
Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid

I organize one of the National Drive Electric Week events every year and work closely with dealers to facilitate test drives at the event. I also work with and see many owners and am involved with my local chapter of the Electric Auto Association.
https://driveelectricweek.org/
http://www.electricauto.org/default.asp?

NDEW is in September and is a fantastic opportunity to talk to owners with experience driving EV's. Last year the owners that attending had logged (collectively) over 1 million miles driving on electric. Go to the website and find one near you (there were over 200 last year around the world). Many ffer test drives from dealers and/or ride'n'drives from owners.

That list is remarkable :| Are you able to pick a favourite or a select few that really stood out to you ?
 

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They all have their attributes and detriments.
So much depends on the individual and their needs, desires and budget.

I would never spend $70K to $100K+ on a car. Our income, bank account and credit rating would allow us to do it, but it ain't gonna happen. It's just a car. Before we leased the Fit EV, they last car we financed was in 1986. Everything else has been cash (but we have had various company cars in the family over the years).

One gentleman I know in the area traded his Model S when the i3 came out. He is a "Net Zero" follower who powers his house and car on solar. He wanted the greater efficiency of the i3 (124 MPGe vs 89).

I'm personally not a fan of Ford's "put it in the trunk" philosophy for battery placement - to me it greatly reduces functionality - others don't seem to mind.

If your looking to own the car for a long time vs lease for 3 years or so, the criteria are different. Thermal management of the battery becomes a much bigger deal as do fit, finish and general durability/reliability.

Drive as many as you can, talk to current owners, browse the forums. Just remember that if you ask if you should buy the xxxx when on a forum dedicated to that car, the answer will inevitably be - YES!

If you have specific questions, or want to give a few more details on what you're looking for, feel free to PM me and I'll try and provide some useful feedback.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
They all have their attributes and detriments.
So much depends on the individual and their needs, desires and budget.

I would never spend $70K to $100K+ on a car. Our income, bank account and credit rating would allow us to do it, but it ain't gonna happen. It's just a car. Before we leased the Fit EV, they last car we financed was in 1986. Everything else has been cash (but we have had various company cars in the family over the years).

One gentleman I know in the area traded his Model S when the i3 came out. He is a "Net Zero" follower who powers his house and car on solar. He wanted the greater efficiency of the i3 (124 MPGe vs 89).

I'm personally not a fan of Ford's "put it in the trunk" philosophy for battery placement - to me it greatly reduces functionality - others don't seem to mind.

If your looking to own the car for a long time vs lease for 3 years or so, the criteria are different. Thermal management of the battery becomes a much bigger deal as do fit, finish and general durability/reliability.

Drive as many as you can, talk to current owners, browse the forums. Just remember that if you ask if you should buy the xxxx when on a forum dedicated to that car, the answer will inevitably be - YES!

If you have specific questions, or want to give a few more details on what you're looking for, feel free to PM me and I'll try and provide some useful feedback.
That was the best response I've ever heard ! You sir, are like an encyclopedia of information, and unbiased whilst factually supported. I'll definitely be sending you a PM soon, Thank you so much !
 

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Hey guys !

I've personally never owned a fully electric vehicle, nor do I really know much about them..

However, I'm really interested in the Chevy Bolt and the Tesla Model 3.

But seeing how long the Model 3 is going to take to come out, I'm totally leaning towards the Bolt.

Anyone else feel the same ?
Welcome to the new generation of personal transportation. The best way to "sample" electric driving is to rent an EV. I know that Enterprise does rent the Chevy Volt in some cities, and others may rent the Nissan Leaf and maybe the Ford Focus Electric. The next best way is to rent a plug-in hybrid such as the Ford C-Max Energi or the Fusion Energi, which gives up to 20 miles of EV driving.

The greatest advantages of pure electric vehicles are the quick and quiet acceleration (electric motors get all their torque at zero RPM), regenerative braking (up to 95% of the vehicle's energy is recovered and recharged back into the battery), less wear on brakes and cooling (no high heat affecting coolant), and low operating and maintenance cost. Hybrids still have a gas engine, but the better the hybrid (more EV range), the less you use the engine. The Chevy Volt covers that extreme, such that many owners never use gasoline but the system needs to run a "maintenance mode" called ERDTM (Engine Running Due To Maintenence) twice a year when the gas engine powers on to heat and cycle the oil and coolants, and burn stale gasoline. The Bolt EV never needs to do this.0:)

The Chevy Bolt EV is GM's third battery powered vehicle, after the 1996 GM EV1, and the 2014 Chevy Spark EV. The only present domestic competition at the cost range is the Ford Focus Electric, which has been recommended by several automotive magazines against the other small EVs (mostly imports). Tesla Motors sells the Model S and the Model X, which are good EVs but are in the luxury class, making them too expensive to consider unless you are a fan and/or have the money. So TM will offer the Model 3 as a low end version of the Model S, but it is still in development. I was laughing for days after reading all the simple fools who would put $1,000 down on a "reservation" for an EV that has no final design or specifications, and will not enter production for at least two more years.:laugh:

GM will begin full production in October of the Bolt EV, but will announce ordering details when the first vehicles are off the production line. I am like the mayority of car buyers, needing to see and feel the vehicle before ordering or buying (I have seen the Model S close up in Florida), so I strongly suggest waiting until the first Bolt EVs arrive at a dealer that you can visit. Take a test drive, too, if possible before laying your money down. Then be content and well pleased as you travel emissions free in your modern battery-electric vehicle for many years to come.;)
 

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I'm personally not a fan of Ford's "put it in the trunk" philosophy for battery placement - to me it greatly reduces functionality - others don't seem to mind.
Ford is using a gas-engine designed vehicle to convert to hybrid (C-Max and Fusion) or battery (Focus), so they have to reuse the basic gas engine powertrain placement which saves money. The trunk was the last resolution to hold the battery for the hybrids. I have a 2014 Fusion Hybrid, and the battery just takes up three inches of height and 16 inches of depth (I measured it), creating a stepped trunk floor, which is actually useful for storing small bags. The two rear seat backs do fold forward for long cargo, so the space loss is a few cubic feet. Since I wanted a hybrid sedan for "cruising" and not for cargo, that loss of space is no issue for me but I get over 40 MPG after many trips. BTW, the two batteries (HV and 12 VDC) are both in the rear, making the Hybrid and Energi versions more dynamically stable on the road than the gas only versions.

GM did a blank page" design for the Bolt EV, just like TM did for the Model S and X, and now the Model 3. BMW and Nissan also did a "blank sheet" design for their EVs, but they spoiled the external look, and both are ugly. In contrast Ford reused their great designs, and are some of the best selling hybrids in America. Ford has announced new designs for 2018, so for now, the Chevy Bolt EV will be alone with only the Focus Electric as its only competition.

I also have a 2009 Chevy Equinox , so the Bolt EV may be its replacement.
 

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... the Chevy Bolt EV will be alone with only the Focus Electric as its only competition.
That's a little bit disingenuous. When the Bolt EV hits the showroom, the i3, IONIQ Electric, and LEAF will have ranges above 100 mi. While obviously not as long range, they will compete with the Bolt EV.
In 2017, when the Bolt EV becomes widely available, we'll also see for sale:
- next gen LEAF with 200-mi range
- new Clarity Electric, range unknown
- Focus Electric and e-Golf with over 100-mile range
- next gen Smart ED, range unknown
 

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I'm also new to the world of electric vehicles so you're not alone Electro. It's a very exciting segment of the auto market and there's going to be plenty of options when the 200 miles Leaf comes out along with Tesla and now even Ford. There's a lot of very knowledgeable members here too.

Right now the Bolt EV seems to be the best option for me since it's going to be released soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Welcome to the new generation of personal transportation. The best way to "sample" electric driving is to rent an EV. I know that Enterprise does rent the Chevy Volt in some cities, and others may rent the Nissan Leaf and maybe the Ford Focus Electric. The next best way is to rent a plug-in hybrid such as the Ford C-Max Energi or the Fusion Energi, which gives up to 20 miles of EV driving.

The greatest advantages of pure electric vehicles are the quick and quiet acceleration (electric motors get all their torque at zero RPM), regenerative braking (up to 95% of the vehicle's energy is recovered and recharged back into the battery), less wear on brakes and cooling (no high heat affecting coolant), and low operating and maintenance cost. Hybrids still have a gas engine, but the better the hybrid (more EV range), the less you use the engine. The Chevy Volt covers that extreme, such that many owners never use gasoline but the system needs to run a "maintenance mode" called ERDTM (Engine Running Due To Maintenence) twice a year when the gas engine powers on to heat and cycle the oil and coolants, and burn stale gasoline. The Bolt EV never needs to do this.0:)

The Chevy Bolt EV is GM's third battery powered vehicle, after the 1996 GM EV1, and the 2014 Chevy Spark EV. The only present domestic competition at the cost range is the Ford Focus Electric, which has been recommended by several automotive magazines against the other small EVs (mostly imports). Tesla Motors sells the Model S and the Model X, which are good EVs but are in the luxury class, making them too expensive to consider unless you are a fan and/or have the money. So TM will offer the Model 3 as a low end version of the Model S, but it is still in development. I was laughing for days after reading all the simple fools who would put $1,000 down on a "reservation" for an EV that has no final design or specifications, and will not enter production for at least two more years.:laugh:

GM will begin full production in October of the Bolt EV, but will announce ordering details when the first vehicles are off the production line. I am like the mayority of car buyers, needing to see and feel the vehicle before ordering or buying (I have seen the Model S close up in Florida), so I strongly suggest waiting until the first Bolt EVs arrive at a dealer that you can visit. Take a test drive, too, if possible before laying your money down. Then be content and well pleased as you travel emissions free in your modern battery-electric vehicle for many years to come.;)
That was very informative, Thanks ! Strange enough, I haven't even considered that companies like Enterprise have EVs. That's definitely something I'm gonna have to look in to so that I could test one out first hand.

With reasoning like that, I really can't see why I would stay with a gasoline engine anymore, that's just way too compelling :D

The Model 3 is definitely way too far away for me to consider purchasing that, and there's no way I'm gonna be putting down money for something I won't see for a good while.

Which EVs have you owned prior/currently ?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm also new to the world of electric vehicles so you're not alone Electro. It's a very exciting segment of the auto market and there's going to be plenty of options when the 200 miles Leaf comes out along with Tesla and now even Ford. There's a lot of very knowledgeable members here too.

Right now the Bolt EV seems to be the best option for me since it's going to be released soon.
Glad to see I'm not alone, Thanks ! But there's definitely so many knowledgeable members on here, and they're all so willing to provide information and help, it's great !

The Bolt does seem like my best option as well, but what were the other EV options that you were thinking of ?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
From what I've been hearing, and I could be completely wrong, but it seems a 200mi range is going to be very, very difficult to achieve. Any insight on that ?
 

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From what I've been hearing, and I could be completely wrong, but it seems a 200mi range is going to be very, very difficult to achieve. Any insight on that ?
I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I think it's extremely likely that the Bolt EV EPA range will be above 200 miles.

If you're asking about how much range you'll see in use, then of course it varies based on how you use it. I think you're likely to get the EPA range from a full battery under a mix of driving speeds including some highway miles with temperate weather. If the driving is mostly highway, or in less favorable weather (very hot, cold, windy), then the range will certainly be less.
 

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That's a little bit disingenuous. When the Bolt EV hits the showroom, the i3, IONIQ Electric, and LEAF will have ranges above 100 mi. While obviously not as long range, they will compete with the Bolt EV.
In 2017, when the Bolt EV becomes widely available, we'll also see for sale:
- next gen LEAF with 200-mi range
- new Clarity Electric, range unknown
- Focus Electric and e-Golf with over 100-mile range
- next gen Smart ED, range unknown
I don't consider the imports as any "competiton", because as a New Yorker I firmly believe supporting only local production. Buying any import displaces domestic sales and jobs. So I stand with my view that the Focus Elecetric will be its only domestic competition.:D
 

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Which EVs have you owned prior/currently ?
The only "EVs" I have test driven are the Ford Fusion Hybrid and the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid. I don't believe in any imports (both BMW and Nissan sell their EVs here), so I don't mention them. My GM dealer wants to sell the Chevy Volt and the new Bolt EV but the regional GM office doesn't allow my dealer (or any other local GM dealer) to sell or service them, so I only have the Ford experience.:(
 
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