[Kirker]

Hello,
Just registered because I'm seriously considering a Bolt. I live in the Seattle metro area and my typical driving is around the city and as far north as say, Everett or south to Tacoma and west to Bremerton. I might do a couple car camping trips to eastern WA per year. Based on my own research I'm not concerned about owning a Chevy Bolt with DC fast charging. However, I've been trying to limit my used car budget to about $20k more or less.

I recently found two options: 1) 2018 LT Bolt with 39,554 miles, replaced battery, and two owners (non-commercial) for $23,995 and 2) a 2017 Premier, 84,600 miles, replaced battery, and two owners (the first owner as a commercial vehicle that put on ~35,000 miles in one year) for $20,995. Bolt #2 is clearly in my price range, but the high mileage and commercial vehicle use give me pause, while Bolt #1 isn't a Premier but is $3,000 more. Thoughts?

 

[Voldar]

It’s clear I would always chose the car that’s closer to present. So the 2018 would be my choice.
Sit in both and then decide. I have an LT too, 2019. I didn’t wanted anymore leather so the only available was the LT. Some say the LT seats are a little better than the leather seats in the early years models, so go test both. Not in a 10 miles run, but go for 50 miles.

 

[Optimusprime]

Keep in mind that, assuming these are sold through dealers and you have sufficient tax liability, these will qualify for a $4000 tax credit. Also consider that new models are (for the time being) qualified for a $7500 tax credit. If you can find a new Bolt for MSRP that option might be a better deal, particularly relative to the 2018 you’re considering.

 

[Kirker]

Keep in mind that, assuming these are sold through dealers and you have sufficient tax liability, these will qualify for a $4000 tax credit. Also consider that new models are (for the time being) qualified for a $7500 tax credit. If you can find a new Bolt for MSRP that option might be a better deal, particularly relative to the 2018 you’re considering.

Thank you Optimus, I did consider that. However I don't have much tax liability (owed) each year. I don't own a home, have major investments outside my retirement, etc. Typically my owed tax is between $0 and $600. So I won't get a huge benefit since the EV tax credit is non-refundable. The used EV tax credit alone will cover my $600 or so tax burden. Which I'm happy about of course.

 

[Lou P]

Both have replacement batteries. My opinion, the issue of mileage is most important. There is no ICE, so that makes things less complicated. I assume you've checked CarFax. I would think the next thing is an inspection focusing on suspension and brakes. Are tires OK? Are there service records? I bought a low mileage 2019 last November (under 23K miles). Everything works, no problems whatsoever. I am very happy with my decision.

 

[404 Not Found]

The commercial use would be my biggest worry, especially on a fast car. And it's not like there was a maintenance advantage. What maintenance?

 

[Elaine R]

I would be interested in how much of that high mileage on the cheaper one is AFTER the battery replacement. If (seems likely) not that much, I'd take that one. Not sure that the commercial use would affect much else than the tires and brakes (you should definitely have those checked, along with all high-mileage maintenance items in the manual). Good luck with your decision.

 

[MichBolt]

That $3000 difference can pay for a lot of maintenance, but it's worth checking things like suspension, bearings, steering rack and column, etc.

 

[GJETSON]

Bolt #1 isn't a Premier but more importantly is $3,000 cheaper. Thoughts?

Have had an LT for almost 6 years. Didn't want any failure prone extras. never missed them, never regretted it.

 

[ARob]

There is now a used tax credit, up to $4K: Used Clean Vehicle Credit | Internal Revenue Service

Tax credits for EV are non-refundable, meaning you need a tax liability equal or greater than the amount of credit. Don't confuse this with refund or amount of tax you have to pay after factoring in withholding. Tax liability is what you owe before factoring in withholding and other tax payments (like estimated tax payments).

To get the credit (from the IRS link above):

The sale qualifies only if:

• You buy the vehicle from a dealer
• For qualified used EVs, the dealer reports required information to you at the time of sale and to the IRS.

A dealer is a person licensed to sell motor vehicles in a state, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, any other territory or possession of the United States, an Indian tribal government, or any Alaska Native Corporation.

Required information includes:

• Dealer's name and taxpayer ID number
• Buyer's name and taxpayer ID number
• Sale date and sale price
• Maximum credit allowable under IRC 25E
• Vehicle identification number (VIN), unless the vehicle is not assigned one
• Battery capacity

Personally, the differences between LT and Premier are somewhat cosmetic, but I love the rear view camera on the premier.

Miles are probably not a huge factor. The typical wear and tear of an ICE vehicle is cosmetic, suspension, brakes, engine, transmission. Typical wear and tear on an EV is cosmetic, suspension, battery. With the recall replacements, the new battery warranty resets for a new 8 year/100K period and the battery will likely retain 80% or better capacity at 250K miles.

 

[BillG49]

Thank you Optimus, I did consider that. However I don't have much tax liability (owed) each year. I don't own a home, have major investments outside my retirement, etc. Typically my owed tax is between $0 and $600. So I won't get a huge benefit since the EV tax credit is non-refundable. The used EV tax credit alone will cover my $600 or so tax burden. Which I'm happy about of course.

You should know that if you do buy one of these from a dealer, you can create a $4,000 tax liability by taking excess distributions from your retirement accounts. Maybe $20,000 will create a $4,000 tax liability? You don't have to spend the money of course, just move it to an investment account or a CD. I'm not a tax expert, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express in the past.

 

[Kirker]

I would be interested in how much of that high mileage on the cheaper one is AFTER the battery replacement. If (seems likely) not that much, I'd take that one. Not sure that the commercial use would affect much else than the tires and brakes (you should definitely have those checked, along with all high-mileage maintenance items in the manual). Good luck with your decision.

The first 54,888 put on while a commercial vehicle (first year and a half). Remaining of the 84,466 miles (so about 30,000 miles) was put on by the subsequent private individual owner.

 

[Kirker]

You should know that if you do buy one of these from a dealer, you can create a $4,000 tax liability by taking excess distributions from your retirement accounts. Maybe $20,000 will create a $4,000 tax liability? You don't have to spend the money of course, just move it to an investment account or a CD. I'm not a tax expert, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express in the past.

I could look into my non-state retirement portion (my 457 plan), but as a public employee I can't "cash out" part of my retirement early, to my knowledge. It's sort of a defined contribution pension plan. I'm well informed on how my retirement works, but I don't think that'll work.

Another wrinkle is that the IRS will be deciding on the 2022 IRA meaning of final assembly of EVs in America, which could eliminate the new tax credit for many existing vehicles. That decision is due sometime this month.

 

[ARob]

Another wrinkle is that the IRS will be deciding on the 2022 IRA meaning of final assembly of EVs in America, which could eliminate the new tax credit for many existing vehicles. That decision is due sometime this month.

That applies to New vehicles, it won't have an impact on used incentives.

 

[Kirker]

There is now a used tax credit, up to $4K: Used Clean Vehicle Credit | Internal Revenue Service

Tax credits for EV are non-refundable, meaning you need a tax liability equal or greater than the amount of credit. Don't confuse this with refund or amount of tax you have to pay after factoring in withholding. Tax liability is what you owe before factoring in withholding and other tax payments (like estimated tax payments).

To get the credit (from the IRS link above):

The sale qualifies only if:

• You buy the vehicle from a dealer
• For qualified used EVs, the dealer reports required information to you at the time of sale and to the IRS.

A dealer is a person licensed to sell motor vehicles in a state, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, any other territory or possession of the United States, an Indian tribal government, or any Alaska Native Corporation.

Required information includes:

• Dealer's name and taxpayer ID number
• Buyer's name and taxpayer ID number
• Sale date and sale price
• Maximum credit allowable under IRC 25E
• Vehicle identification number (VIN), unless the vehicle is not assigned one
• Battery capacity

Personally, the differences between LT and Premier are somewhat cosmetic, but I love the rear view camera on the premier.

Miles are probably not a huge factor. The typical wear and tear of an ICE vehicle is cosmetic, suspension, brakes, engine, transmission. Typical wear and tear on an EV is cosmetic, suspension, battery. With the recall replacements, the new battery warranty resets for a new 8 year/100K period and the battery will likely retain 80% or better capacity at 250K miles.

But won't higher mileage in the future impact selling value (ie let's say 20,000 miles when I'm ready to sell)? I know EVs supposedly keep their value longer but still. And again, the higher mileage one had front end suspension work done. 🤷‍♂️

 

[ARob]

But won't higher mileage in the future impact selling value (ie let's say 20,000 miles when I'm ready to sell)? I know EVs supposedly keep their value longer but still. And again, the higher mileage one had front end suspension work done. 🤷‍♂️

Everything we thought we knew about used car values went out the door with COVID and supply chain issues.

In 2019/2020, used 2017 Bolts with low miles were selling for $12-13K. Used Leafs that were selling for $5K are now worth $10-15K. Had it not been for constraints on new car sales, many used Bolts would surely be <$10K now. So prices today are inflated and bound to drop once new car sales recover from supply issues. GM is optimistic that new car supply issues will mostly be a thing of the past by year end.

As many will tell you, cars are not an investment.

While true that miles aren't as relevant with EVs due to every drivetrain component other than batteries likely having a 1M mile life or more, the cosmetic and suspension parts will deteriorate at the same rate as any car. The new battery gives the car a bit of a new lease on life, but it too will likely be viable well past 250K miles albeit perhaps with a bit lower range due to lost capacity.

But, newer, more capable used EVs may become readily available and push Bolt prices lower too. Many new EVs are leased because of the perception of new tech becoming obsolete quickly. When Bolt came out in 2016, it was billed as the first affordable 200+ mile range EV and was pretty state of the art. Today, it is the bargain EV with stiff competition from longer range, faster charging, better equipped, and yes, higher priced models from other OEMs. Bolt's attraction is primarily value.

EDIT: Depressing to learn you are about to buy high, and expect to sell low. The classic way to fail miserably in speculative investments!

 

[Kirker]

I never expect a car to be an investment because of their depreciation (also a reason why I won't buy new unless it is leased or some other compelling reason). I certainly expect the value of any car to drop but having a Bolt purchased at 39,400 miles vs 84,600 could be nominally better when I sell out trade it in in the future. Both had their batteries replaced so that's a + for both. But the market in EVs is probably driven more by tech advances than ICE cars. So even getting the 39,000 miler could mean a bigger loss in the future if the tech advances enough, which it probably will.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

 

[OkieBolt]

I would really reconsider buying new. Lower interest rate and the tax credit. And it is not how much you get back in refund but how much you pay in over the year.

Even if you can't claim all $7500 you should be able to claim enough make the difference between used and new. And buying new should help with resell.

 

[Kirker]

I've already answered this. I either have a relatively small amount of tax or I get a refund. Prior to Covid I took the Student Loan Interest Deduction that would net me about a $500 tax return. I make ~$85 k and rent so not in a tax bracket where I owe all that much. The credit is non-refundable and can only be used once in the year the car is purchased. I would net maybe $500 or so, that's it. My savings in taxes owed is not the difference between a new and used Bolt.

 

[OkieBolt]

I've already answered this. I either have a relatively small amount of tax or I get a refund. Prior to Covid I took the Student Loan Interest Deduction that would net me about a $500 tax return. I make ~$85 k and rent so not in a tax bracket where I owe all that much. The credit is non-refundable and can only be used once in the year the car is purchased. I would net maybe $500 or so, that's it. My savings in taxes owed is not the difference between a new and used Bolt.

If you make $85k then you have enough tax liability to get the full rebate. But don’t trust me, ask a tax advisor. When I get home I can link a site to show the numbers.