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Price is a deterrent if the $7,500 credit goes away, the electric vehicle future seems to be kind of shaky these days.
 

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Price is a deterrent if the $7,500 credit goes away, the electric vehicle future seems to be kind of shaky these days.
Very true. I think there is only about a 50/50 percent chance that people buying an EV this year (myself included) will actually get the credit. I think people buying next year have almost no chance they will get a credit. My only hope is Musk can put a bug in Trump's ear to keep it, or at least maybe California can pick up the slack with a similar credit.

Soon I fear, people will have to decide whether or not the Bolt is actually worth $37,499 and up. I'm sure many will pass and EV adoption and progress will slowed again.
 

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My only hope is Musk can put a bug in Trump's ear to keep it, or at least maybe California can pick up the slack with a similar credit.
It shouldn't be too hard to convince Trump that it's an issue of American competitiveness. What's more problematic is whether the rest of his cabal can be talked into it.
 

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It shouldn't be too hard to convince Trump that it's an issue of American competitiveness. What's more problematic is whether the rest of his cabal can be talked into it.
This is if Trump can be convinced that electric cars are important. Of course if he can be convinced, any changes to the tax laws require the president sign the bill. He could veto anything that eliminates the EV tax credits.
 

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Doubt Chevy themselves can lower the prices if the tax credit is removed. They were already taking a financial hit for every Bolt they sold. This is going to be a tough year for electric vehicles.
 

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Price is a deterrent if the $7,500 credit goes away, the electric vehicle future seems to be kind of shaky these days.
You and many other forget that the $7,500 tax rebate only applies to those who has enough income to justify paying over $7,500 in Federal taxes, so that "credit" or rebate is for the rich (only 25% of the national population). The Chevy Bolt EV price is still buyable within the common family income with no tax rebate needed, especially for those like me who never pay Federal taxes or don't have such a high income to even pay taxes.

You and others may also say that it is still "expensive", but why then do the imports sell thousands of high priced luxury gas cars, and NOBODY IS COMPLAINING? Only a few BEVs cost less than the average car and none has the features or the EV range of the Chevy Bolt EV. So if I or anyone else wants to buy this BEV, that is because I deserve to buy it, even if I can never get that rebate.

Please stop complaining or commenting about the price! GM priced it correctly and Tesla Motors will NEVER compete against that.:|
 

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Doubt Chevy themselves can lower the prices if the tax credit is removed. They were already taking a financial hit for every Bolt they sold. This is going to be a tough year for electric vehicles.
No way. They no doubt could knock a small amount off, but GM dreams of having $7500 worth of profit in this car. No, they'll have to hope people will want to buy it anyhow. I guess I'm one of those people. Although I fully intend to claim the tax credit as I sure could use it, I really can't count on it and I know that. So in a way, I am accepting nearly full price.
 

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You and many other forget that the $7,500 tax rebate only applies to those who has enough income to justify paying over $7,500 in Federal taxes, so that "credit" or rebate is for the rich (only 25% of the national population).
Bull crap! It's not just for the rich. Anybody earning an income can use it. For example-

  • A single person earning $15 an hour makes $28,800 a year and pays $3856.25 in Federal taxes.
  • A single person earning $20 an hour makes $38,400 a year and owes $5371.25 in Federal taxes.
  • A single person earning $25 an hour makes $48,000 a year and owes $7771.25 in Federal taxes.
This of course does not take into account any deductions they may have. In the case of the first two, they would not see the benefit of all $7500, but they would owe ZERO Federal taxes fro the year if they buy a BEV. The last guy gets the whole amount and only owes $271.25 for the year. Of course maybe you think these guys are rich, I don't know.

IMO, anybody making the first two incomes shouldn't be buying any brand new car, or leasing them either. They should be saving for retirement, to buy a house, or better themselves, but that just my opinion, the guy making $20 probably can swing the payments if they want.

You and others may also say that it is still "expensive", but why then do the imports sell thousands of high priced luxury gas cars, and NOBODY IS COMPLAINING?
Because those cars and trucks actually are luxury vehicles, the Bolt is not. If you set the electric drive train aside, and compare just car to car, the Bolt is a terrible value compared to what else you can get for $37,499. It's about the battery and to date, very few new car buyers give a ****, or can even be convinced to buy that battery. This is why lower cost helps get people into batteries. This of course is predicated on the idea that as a country we want more people driving battery powered cars. Most of America does not see the urgency and I respect that point of view too.

Please stop complaining or commenting about the price! GM priced it correctly and Tesla Motors will NEVER compete against that.:|
I don't think people here are complaining about the price. I agree that GM priced it where they had too and that it represents the greatest BEV values on the market. I also agree that Tesla will not be competing in this price range very much no matter what Musk says. I think people are saying that without the tax credit, the car falls beyond the reach of many people that would like it. Just a simple fact.
 

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No way. They no doubt could knock a small amount off, but GM dreams of having $7500 worth of profit in this car. No, they'll have to hope people will want to buy it anyhow. I guess I'm one of those people. Although I fully intend to claim the tax credit as I sure could use it, I really can't count on it and I know that. So in a way, I am accepting nearly full price.
Only way I can see that happening is if they have trouble moving these and there's no doubt in my mind the momentum they have right now will die out in any foreseeable future (unless i'm being too optimistic here from sipping the GM koolaid)
 

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Only way I can see that happening is if they have trouble moving these and there's no doubt in my mind the momentum they have right now will die out in any foreseeable future (unless i'm being too optimistic here from sipping the GM koolaid)
I think it is a case of too much Kool Aid. They are already discounting them all over the place here and they don't seem to be moving off the lots much. I got an email from a local dealer and they are now offering $2000 off an LT and $1700 off a Premier if you lease it and GM will give you a $2500 rebate. It's still just $1800 off if you buy.

I don't think it's selling as well as many hoped including GM. I suspect a lot of people are waiting for the next Model 3 announcement. Rumor is it's in March. If Tesla quickly switched to a hatchback design and put in a proper dashboard, I think Bolt sales will suffer.
 

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I say 9:1 the current admin (CA) won't get rid of the tax credit. GM has too much invested. No tax credit would hamper sales. Period. While CA seems to like the oil folks, pretty hard to ignore GM and how they've stuck their neck out. We hear "job creation" all the time by folks running for various offices. LG announced an expansion in MI and claims to add 150 jobs. While CA may have pulled more than one boner so far, to nix tax credit doesn't effect just the Bolt, but could also effect the (manufactured if not made in USA) Volt, Pacifica, C Max, Spark, Focus, Tesla, etc. Just can't see CA "pulling the plug" on the credit. Maybe wishful thinking as Bolt still not available in my neck of the woods yet... Sure hope it doesn't go away. Just talked myself into 20:1 I get the credit!
 

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I say 9:1 the current admin (CA) won't get rid of the tax credit. GM has too much invested. No tax credit would hamper sales. Period. While CA seems to like the oil folks, pretty hard to ignore GM and how they've stuck their neck out. We hear "job creation" all the time by folks running for various offices. LG announced an expansion in MI and claims to add 150 jobs. While CA may have pulled more than one boner so far, to nix tax credit doesn't effect just the Bolt, but could also effect the (manufactured if not made in USA) Volt, Pacifica, C Max, Spark, Focus, Tesla, etc. Just can't see CA "pulling the plug" on the credit. Maybe wishful thinking as Bolt still not available in my neck of the woods yet... Sure hope it doesn't go away. Just talked myself into 20:1 I get the credit!
There is zero talk of eliminating the $2500 rebate offered here in California. I feel confident that it will carry on. What folks are talking about in this thread creep is the speculated elimination of the Federal tax credit, of which California is nearly powerless to do anything about.
 

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This is if Trump can be convinced that electric cars are important. Of course if he can be convinced, any changes to the tax laws require the president sign the bill. He could veto anything that eliminates the EV tax credits.
This is not a change in tax law. The expiry of the credit is the law. Trump's veto power won't help. He has to feel strongly enough to push for extending the credit, which I doubt very much. He already removed all references to global warming from EPA websites. It is also very strange, that Mr. Musk didn't tweet anything about global warming since joining two of Trump's councils.

The $7500 tax credit is per manufacturer. Once it expires for Tesla and GM, people will be buying electric cars and phevs from other makers to save $7500.
 

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I think it is a case of too much Kool Aid. They are already discounting them all over the place here and they don't seem to be moving off the lots much. I got an email from a local dealer and they are now offering $2000 off an LT and $1700 off a Premier if you lease it and GM will give you a $2500 rebate. It's still just $1800 off if you buy.

I don't think it's selling as well as many hoped including GM. I suspect a lot of people are waiting for the next Model 3 announcement. Rumor is it's in March. If Tesla quickly switched to a hatchback design and put in a proper dashboard, I think Bolt sales will suffer.
Or, when Model 3 actually comes out, it will also not sell as many as Tesla claimed last year. It has stopped giving updates on M3 reservation number for a reason. I suspect many of the early reservations are just Tesla shareholders trying to help the stock price with a high reservation count. And many are flippers, who thought they can flip the early cars for a good profit. Actual sales will be very different, IMO. It will be a miracle if Tesla can sell even 50000 in a year in US.

Edit: Rumor is, some prototype of Model 3 will be shown rigth before Q1 ER, on Feb 20th.
 

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This is not a change in tax law. The expiry of the credit is the law. ...

The $7500 tax credit is per manufacturer. Once it expires for Tesla and GM, people will be buying electric cars and phevs from other makers to save $7500.
That is as the law stands now. The new congress and the president can change the law before the 2017 tax year is over. When we file our 2017 taxes in 2018, the new tax code, whatever it may be, could in theory be without the EV tax credit altogether. So we might think we are going to get that tax credit, but we may not. There is no way of knowing at this point. The lucky ones are the 500 or so people that got to pick up their Bolts in December. They will get the credit for sure.
 

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Or, when Model 3 actually comes out, it will also not sell as many as Tesla claimed last year. It has stopped giving updates on M3 reservation number for a reason. I suspect many of the early reservations are just Tesla shareholders trying to help the stock price with a high reservation count. And many are flippers, who thought they can flip the early cars for a good profit. Actual sales will be very different, IMO. It will be a miracle if Tesla can sell even 50000 in a year in US.

Edit: Rumor is, some prototype of Model 3 will be shown rigth before Q1 ER, on Feb 20th.
Yeah, I don't believe the Tesla numbers either. There are a lot of speculators as well as people who put down money because they might want one in the future. Since the money is fully refundable (assuming Tesla doesn't go belly up) there really is no commitment to buy. Actual sales of the Model 3 is going to be much, much lower than the Teslarati think it will be. Particularly if the stick to the trunk rather than hatchback and the idiot iPad drive dashboard. Another major factor will be the if the federal tax credit evaporates and the sub $30,000 fancy self driving Tesla people are dreaming of is suddenly $7500 more expensive than imagined.
 

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Isn't Musk on Trump's board of advisers. I'm sure he'll try his best to extend or at least keep the current federal tax credit because he knows Model 3 sales heavily relies on it.
 

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…. It will be a miracle if Tesla can sell even 50000 in a year in US.
Tesla has already sold, and continues to increase sales of EV's per-year - the latest figures are last year they sold 83,992 and demand continues to increase. The company has revealed that it managed to get 83,992 electric vehicles out to people over the year; it would have been more but for some production hiccups in the fall. It's a big year-over-year boost for the relatively small automaker, since it only managed to deliver 50,580 cars in 2015.


I agree they may not sell 500,000 year - but I wouldn't be surprised if they sold 100-200k units in the first year (if they can make that many)…

keep in mind no matter how much I love my Bolt (which I do) a Tesla at 40k with self driving, superchargers, better home charging solutions, and better infotainment software, faster, and better visual design is going to be a very very appealing car to a very large number of people.

source for the sales data
https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/03/tesla-narrowly-missed-its-2016-sales-targets/

Tesla is pushing a total fleet size of nearly 300k Model S's at X's at this point in time which makes the quantity significant by any automotive industry metric.

I for one welcome more EV's and have no doubt both Chevy and Tesla can sell lots and lots of cars.
 
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