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Discussion Starter #1
As a new (happy) owner of a Bolt of 4 weeks now, I just received my first "Smart Driver Report" and was rather surprised to see the level of detail that is shared with OnStar. It's no surprise, in that I'm sure I checked the EULA (End User License Agreement) when getting the free trial with the purchase of the car, but I'm not comfortable in sharing this data and presumably when the OnStar trial is over, any future information will not be shared. But it makes me wonder also as to what data the Bolt collects on it's own.

I am sure the OnStar intent is 'good' but they are missing the mark. The information is judgmental without any supporting numbers. For example, what constitutes "hard acceleration" or 'hard braking'? And the advice is laughable for example they notice that I do a lot of 'late driving' (ie at night) and recommend to see if I can attend to matters during the day if possible. No kidding! I'll contact the night shift supervisor to see if he can reschedule hours....

There are a number of issues with this data:
1. Data leaks - My driving is my business. I'd rather it not be shared with my insurance company or my employer. Gee...we noticed you parked outside a Planned Parenthood facility, or it looks like you attended a rally for <fill in the blank> or you parked at XYZ hospital a lot based on the GPS data. These are real concerns although not exactly for me personally (yet) but I have friends who have a history of cancer in their families and they do NOT participate in any studies, gene research (23 and me, etc) because they are afraid that their medical histories will leak and be brought to the attention of their employers, and although illegal to terminate someone for being a higher risk, they are very fearful of losing their coverage for this reason under some other ploy.

2. Non leaks data sharing - say that State Farm buys OnStar, or in the EULA it says that OnStar can share the data. So my driving info can be shared with my insurance company, maybe. It's not an issue until it's an issue. I'll give an example. In NY, a cyclist hit a pedestrian and the injuries were severe (perhaps fatal - I can't remember). The cyclist said they were not speeding. However, they were using STRAVA which tracks all their info on their cycling. The information was requested under subpoena and indeed, they were speeding. So, if the information is maintained by OnStar how might it be used?

3. What other info does OnStar collect - Do they collect all navigation information including CarPlay? Do they collect camera information (front/rear)?

4. And, where does the information from Bolt fit into the privacy picture? What info does Bolt collect independently of OnStar and where and for how long?

None of these issues are new or that surprising really, but they are relatively new as appliances become smarter and smarter. And, the info isn't exactly Bolt specific other than it was the purchase of the Bolt that brought this to my attention. And, I know the answer is to opt out of OnStar, which I intend to do when the free trial ends (although I'll miss the Blues channel). But, I'd like to make informed decisions and know what info the Bolt is collecting and what info OnStar is collecting (and will it end when the subscription expires). I have some of these questions into OnStar, but thought this topic might be of some interest to this early adopter community.
Cheers.
PS. Yeah, I have a lot of 'hard accelerations' because it's fun and a new car. That feeling of being pushed back in the seat can't be beat. In time I'll settle down, maybe.
 

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It's an ongoing problem with not just the bolt. All of your situations can also be asked about a smart phone if you have one. End users of all these products have very little choice or rights. Worse case you have some one physically disconnect the gps if you decide to go that far. Or get a dumb phone and an old electric car that gets 50 miles round trip.
 

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I had made a similar post about the lack of qualifiers regarding the judgmental parts of the "Smart Driver Report"..
http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/145-ev-lounge/10754-smart-driver-report.html

My report spanned 3+ weeks of usage...


As I had previously posted... I'm a pretty conservative driver, if I had some hard acceleration and braking incidents... it was due to keeping up with other traffic, or avoiding someone, etc. This is NY after all... we're not exactly the most patient drivers on earth.
In it's present form... the report is completely unusable for insurance co usage.


As far as collected metrics ie routes/speeds, etc... I wouldn't worry too much about that because as they said on that TV show "you are being watched" already by local street and private security cams no matter where you go.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Good point on the collection of info regarding cell phones. This issue isn't exactly new, but it was brought to my attention because of the report from OnStar. And, unless one does want to be 'off the grid', then it's nearly impossible to avoid being a position of sharing some personal data. So, don't get me wrong, I understand the trade-offs and the challenges that will come about with the information sharing. I'm not going backwards for sure, but every now and then I am surprised or should I say 're-awakened' to the level of information that is or is capable of being extracted from my behavior.

Regarding "In it's present form... the report is completely unusable for insurance co usage." I do agree with this in terms of the report, but somewhere there is the raw data which OS collected by which to produce the report. Might actually be interesting to see.
Thanks.
 

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Something just cane to mind regarding the 160 incidences of "Hard Braking" in my report....
I probably have not hit the actual brake pedal more than once or twice a day (other than using it to hold the Bolt while already stopped at a traffic light), so in the 3+ weeks that report covers- if I hit the actual brakes 2x per day over 21 days that could account for 42 instances of "Hard Braking" so the other 138 instances had to come from using full regen via the paddle in "L"?

Now, that's something to consider... using the paddle in "L" is considered "Hard Braking"! :confused:
 

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That's a weird way for OnStar to categorize your driving habits. I feel like this was originally designed for a vehicle without regenerative braking, something to encompass all cars no matter what powers it.

At least this data isn't being used by your insurance company or those hard brakes that you didn't really do would add onto your premium.
 

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^ if they think I brake hard using only the regen paddle in low... they should take a ride with my wife in her CRV!
When I'm a passenger I'm literally hitting the imaginary brake pedal at almost every stop sign we encounter. I'm surprised that car still has rotors left...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Below is the data (from https://www.onstar.com/us/en/footer-links/privacy-policy.html ) that they can (or at least are capable of collecting). Some is pretty boilerplate and what you would expect, but I thought it interesting to collect image data from the vehicle's cameras (having worked in image processing, storing and security field), GPS data (expected), Voice Command Data (interesting and reminds me of the recent murder case where Amazon Alexa data was subpoena'd http://www.snopes.com/2017/02/23/amazon-subpoena-alexa-data-murder/ ). Although for the voice recognition, unlike Alexa which is always listening, you actually have to initiate a voice dialogue with the vehicle and/or attached cell phone. As was pointed out, this isn't much different than the issues associated with your phone's privacy, but it's a new area in that it is now in the personal transportation domain.


"Information about you and your accounts with us: such as your name, address, telephone number, date of birth, e-mail address, login information, demographic data, gender, password, PIN, emergency contact information, information about the acquisition and financing of your vehicle, like whether or not you have financed or leased your vehicle, the lease/financing term, and billing information, like your credit card number, CVV code and expiration date.

Information about your vehicle: such as license plate number, vehicle identification number (VIN), mileage, oil/battery status, fuel or charging history, electrical system function, gear status, and diagnostic trouble codes.

Information about the use of your vehicle, including operational and safety related information: such as GPS location, speed, air bag deployments, crash avoidance alerts, impact data, safety system status, braking and swerving/cornering events, event data recorder (EDR) data, seat belt settings, vehicle direction (heading), camera image and sensor data, voice command information, stability control or anti-lock events, security/theft alerts, infotainment system usage, and WiFi data usage.

Information about your device and how you interact with our products and services, including apps and websites: such as IP address, browser type, unique device identifier, cookie data, associated identifying and usage information from your mobile phone, laptop, or other device."
 

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Is OnStar still tracking me?

As a new (happy) owner of a Bolt of 4 weeks now, I just received my first "Smart Driver Report" and was rather surprised to see the level of detail that is shared with OnStar. It's no surprise, in that I'm sure I checked the EULA (End User License Agreement) when getting the free trial with the purchase of the car, but I'm not comfortable in sharing this data and presumably when the OnStar trial is over, any future information will not be shared. But it makes me wonder also as to what data the Bolt collects on it's own.

I am sure the OnStar intent is 'good' but they are missing the mark. The information is judgmental without any supporting numbers. For example, what constitutes "hard acceleration" or 'hard braking'? And the advice is laughable for example they notice that I do a lot of 'late driving' (ie at night) and recommend to see if I can attend to matters during the day if possible. No kidding! I'll contact the night shift supervisor to see if he can reschedule hours....

There are a number of issues with this data:
1. Data leaks - My driving is my business. I'd rather it not be shared with my insurance company or my employer. Gee...we noticed you parked outside a Planned Parenthood facility, or it looks like you attended a rally for <fill in the blank> or you parked at XYZ hospital a lot based on the GPS data. These are real concerns although not exactly for me personally (yet) but I have friends who have a history of cancer in their families and they do NOT participate in any studies, gene research (23 and me, etc) because they are afraid that their medical histories will leak and be brought to the attention of their employers, and although illegal to terminate someone for being a higher risk, they are very fearful of losing their coverage for this reason under some other ploy.

2. Non leaks data sharing - say that State Farm buys OnStar, or in the EULA it says that OnStar can share the data. So my driving info can be shared with my insurance company, maybe. It's not an issue until it's an issue. I'll give an example. In NY, a cyclist hit a pedestrian and the injuries were severe (perhaps fatal - I can't remember). The cyclist said they were not speeding. However, they were using STRAVA which tracks all their info on their cycling. The information was requested under subpoena and indeed, they were speeding. So, if the information is maintained by OnStar how might it be used?

3. What other info does OnStar collect - Do they collect all navigation information including CarPlay? Do they collect camera information (front/rear)?

4. And, where does the information from Bolt fit into the privacy picture? What info does Bolt collect independently of OnStar and where and for how long?

None of these issues are new or that surprising really, but they are relatively new as appliances become smarter and smarter. And, the info isn't exactly Bolt specific other than it was the purchase of the Bolt that brought this to my attention. And, I know the answer is to opt out of OnStar, which I intend to do when the free trial ends (although I'll miss the Blues channel). But, I'd like to make informed decisions and know what info the Bolt is collecting and what info OnStar is collecting (and will it end when the subscription expires). I have some of these questions into OnStar, but thought this topic might be of some interest to this early adopter community.
Cheers.
PS. Yeah, I have a lot of 'hard accelerations' because it's fun and a new car. That feeling of being pushed back in the seat can't be beat. In time I'll settle down, maybe.
I am 4 months along with my Bolt. I have not bought into continuing On-Star or Sirus Radio. Yesterday, without my iPhone plugged in, I hit the "contact button" that normally brings up Siri, when I am in Apple Play. On-Star answered and I disconnected. Anyone know how On-Star works when you are not a subscriber?
:(
 

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I found it odd that On-Star was still working even after it expires and looked up how to turn off OnStar capabilities. If Your Mechanics is correct, you need to disconnect the module located in the trunk somewhere?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Part of my head scratching regarding OS has to do with the business value. It costs GM money to put in the buttons, wiring harness, communications and cellphone instrumentation and then to have the back-end office support system. So, is it worth it to put in X dollars into every vehicle when they don't know if the user will pay for a subscription? It's either 'worth it' (they have 6-7M subscribers so they say http://tinyurl.com/y99229kc ) or it's predicted to eventually be profitable. I thought the business model articles were quite interesting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar
and
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/lessons-from-running-gms-onstar

They apparently sell (or are capable of selling) your anonymized (so they say) data to other companies. So, even if you are not a subscriber, there is value in the data that is being collected.

Say they have 6M paying users at $20/month then that's 120M/month which I am guessing is way to high after discounts. But still it's a chunk of change. The value proposition being put forward is that OS adds value like no other system or app can do in making your driving experience safer (accident detection, airbag deployment), more secure (theft tracking and/or deterrence such as shutting down a stolen car, remote unlock) and finally more friendly with navigation assistance (which competes closely with nav apps so it may not survive). OS experience needs to stay ahead of what smartphone apps can provide. If they have 6-7M paid subscriptions, then maybe they do have something people really want.
 
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