Well you still have 240 coming into it if it's only 20 years old (or even 60 years old). You should have plenty of amperage coming from the transformer, but you'd need to get the breaker box upgraded.
And if you don't do it your house will burn down, and your insurance company will say it is your fault and not pay anything!!!How old is the wiring in your house? If it's 100 years old, then it's WAAAAAAAAY past time to get it upgraded. If it's been upgraded, you have 240 2-phase coming in off the transformer into your breaker box.
Yes the RAV will be a serious contender as well because of that. I think it will all depend on price. Again I am leasing so I can’t really make a decision until next summer one way or the other because the difference in trade in value with what I owe on the lease is considerable.To the OP- The Prius Prime qualifies for $4,500 federal tax credit, and the upcoming RAV4 Prime qualifies for the full $7,500. That means the plug in version could cost less than the regular hybrid after taxes.
regarding the panels, I did look into a subpanel. This would require a bit of labor to reconfigure things and is about $850 for that plus the new 6-20 circuit and outlet install. For the difference of a few hundred dollars more, I would just upgrade the whole panel and possibly upgrade from 100A to 150 or 200A service.I'm gonna say the same thing everybody else is saying...
Upgrade your panel, pay the $1500, it's worth it, regardless of what car you end up buying. Anyways, that's about the same price as replacing all four tires on the Subaru, isn't it? 🤣 The panel probably looks like **** in there anyways, especially if it's been tandemed out so many times. BUT AT LEAST YOU HAVE BREAKERS!!!! Or rig in a second panel, or a sub panel. Plus, if you do buy an EV, you'll be cursing the day you were born if you're stuck charging at 120V, and upgrading your 15 amp outlet to 20 amps will get you exactly squat because the bolt will only charge at 12 amps max anyways.
The good news is, and it's been all over this forum, is that the stock charger that comes with the car can run at 220V, so you can just change that outlet to a 6-15, use the existing conductors at 220V, and use a plug shape changer, that way you'll get much faster charging without having to drag in new wires. Higher voltage, but the current, and hence the required wire size is the same at 12 amps. But we're getting way ahead of the game here.
As for your family? I can't speak to your dynamics, but charging up your EV is about the same price as drinking a few of their beers. It's not like tanking up your Subaru or siphoning gas out of your cousin's truck in the middle of the night. Just about everybody we visit is OK with our mooching. We can spend more time hanging out and not leaving early to fast charging on the road.
And where on earth do you work that they wouldn't let you plug in with an extension cord to draw $0.75 worth of electricity during your shift?
This really depends on company policy. Same with plugging in at someone else's house... not understanding EVs or physics in general, they'd assume a charge session will cause their power bill to go up $50.And where on earth do you work that they wouldn't let you plug in with an extension cord to draw $0.75 worth of electricity during your shift?
Hi! Sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into your next vehicle plans — congrats! We have a 2017 Bolt as our primary car with 43000 miles and we’ve used it for commuting, visiting family, and short and long road trips. I’m looking at 2022 as well for replacing our secondary car (a CR-V) with something similar in size and height (my wife prefers the higher driving position) but full electric, and I think there will be a few options by then.Hi everyone!
Agreed. I crossed off some of the shorter range EV's like the Mini Electric and Nissan Leaf as well. I mentioned in another post that an ideal range for me would be 500 miles - but that also factors in the idea of only charging to 80% to preserve battery life (I think that was formerly called Hilltop mode?) and never going under 20% state of charge. This protects the top and bottom buffers of the battery which is typically the range the lithium family of batteries likes to stay - basically as close to the 50% state of charge as possible. By doing this, you'd lose 100 miles off the top and bottom buffer, leaving you with a typical "useful" battery range of 300 miles.Any full electric will have the same basic charging options: DC, level 2 (208/240V), and level 1 (120V). I personally feel that the relative speeds of DC charging are oversold. I also don’t think you’ll be in the market for an electric car that has a range either less than 120 miles (a week of normal commuting or one round trip in the summer) or above 600 miles (one week of summer commuting). Given your scenarios, AC charging shouldn’t be a problem for you except during the summers at the shore. Working through the options:
And this would be the best option, I agree. Having 240 at my house has no impact on the back-and-forth legs to the shore and work, but something at work would be good. We were looking at something like you suggesting, a NEMA 14-30 outlet (240v at 30A which charges at 24A), as this provides 5.7 kW of energy per hour, and over an 8 hour shift, would charge about 46 kW of energy - which is about 180 miles assuming a 250 Watt per mile efficiency. We're also considering a 6-20 outlet (240v at 20A which charges at 16A) since that would also provide 122 miles of range over a shift - more than any of us are driving.If they put in charging at work, use that. It’ll be cheaper than EVgo or other DC options, you don’t have to negotiate with family members, and it won’t take you any extra time. At 208V/30A you should take about 5 hours per day to hit full again.
I don't think it would be a negotiation, they wouldn't forbid me to do it, I would just not like to have to deal with it and any sidebar commentary. If I had to charge in order to get to a DCFC overnight, for example, I'd just plug in and unplug it in the morning. It's not about the money of the electricity, it's about the sidebar commentary and one-liner comments.If there’s no charging at work, but you can negotiate with your family to put in a 240V socket of any kind, you’re set. You can get a portable charger and plug that in for the summer. If you wanted to compensate them for the power directly, you could keep a log of how much you used each session. My charger has a readout that’ll list the amount of power drawn per session, or you could get a separate plug-in meter for that. (I’m assuming they wouldn’t insist on utility-grade metering.)
This is something in the back of my mind for a home solution instead of having to pay to upgrade my home's panel and wiring to 240V. I have the access to easily use an EA station as needed to top off. And it's close enough that I can always go plug in and walk home, depending on how long the EA session is for.If there’s no charging at work, but you can negotiate with your family to plug in at 120V/12A, then you should be able to make one DC charging stop per week. You’re using, say, 30kWh for the round trip and charging back 15 kWh over 12-14 hours being parked. If you can find a grocery store near that EVgo charger, you could pick up groceries for the family every Tuesday or Wednesday night while you charge back up. It’ll charge back up to full over the weekend on 120V.
Oddly enough, around here, there aren't any free chargers. There's one a few towns over that is at a restaurant that you can use while you have dinner there, but it's a Tesla destination charger (with a J1772 adapter according to PlugShare) and that doesn't do that much juice like a DCFC does.If you can’t charge at either your workplace or the summer home, perhaps there’s an L2 charger somewhere in the community near your summer home or your job. We stayed in a tiny seashore town for our honeymoon, and the local library had a charger they were happy for us to use; I’d park it there overnight before days we planned to take a drive, and take a lovely half mile walk along a bayshore back to the rental. Since then, I‘ve bought one of those folding electric scooters for trips, so I can go drop off the car at a charger and come back to the motel or the family house or the restaurant.
We'd formerly had people across the country plugging in where they had the capability to do so, and people driving gas-powered cars filed a grievance because they wanted the government to provide them with gasoline/diesel for their personal vehicles. The result is cease and desist all across the board.As another posted "for the government", I've heard of that too. It is apparently considered theft if you plug in at a government office...
Yeah, I have a friend who works at NASA Ames Research Center (Moffitt field, SF Bay Area, Calif). They went through the same B.S. experience (not him - he doesn't have an electric).We'd formerly had people across the country plugging in where they had the capability to do so, and people driving gas-powered cars filed a grievance because they wanted the government to provide them with gasoline/diesel for their personal vehicles. The result is cease and desist all across the board.
This is the kind of crazy we have to deal with. Godspeed.
(They've since made changes to policy to allow people to charge where available so long as they pay for the electricity. From my understanding, the organization itself will pay for the chargers, maintenance, and infrastructure as a perk of the building but employees are responsible for their own power consumption. I have no problem with this plan, it's fair.)
Yep, at JPL they came up will a club sort of entity for the EV charging. You'd assume, but no. Makes me wonder how much bureaucrats are crippling our space programAs another posted "for the government", I've heard of that too. It is apparently considered theft if you plug in at a government office...
I would go with the Bolt EUV. It's supposed to come with supercruise option and faster DC fast charging. It's supposed to be much more improved than the bolt. But if you can afford the Tesla I would go with a Tesla model y.Hi everyone! Just to be up front, I've posted a similar thread in other forums of vehicles I'm interested in but I'm looking for as much information as I possibly can.
I'm leasing a 2019 Subaru Forester presently. My lease ends mid-January of 2022, which means I have anywhere from 12 to 18 months left on the lease. The reason this is 12 to 18 is because if I return the lease anytime after June of 2021, I can have the early lease end fees waived - as long as I leased or purchased another Subaru. Some catch, right? Anyway, I generally like to start my research around 12 months out, which means I can place a "factory order" or "custom order" as needed to get exactly what I want.
Commute - I live in a single-family home, so I would plan to charge in my driveway via my garage on 120V 15A (aka 5-15) outlet. This may have the means to be upgraded to a 20A 120V outlet, aka 5-20. I'm willing to spend on a 240V30A type of outlet and circuit in the future if the 120 is not sufficient but this will absolutely require panel upgrades (breaker box is completely filled up and already has been tandemed and combined as much as possible)...
My work commute is about 10 miles each way, 5 days a week in non-pandemic conditions. This commute is about 1-2 miles of Suburban driving to a 55mph highway, about 4 miles of that highway, and then another 4 miles of very urban city driving. Traffic is typically bad on one of the two ways since I work either very early or very late, so I only hit the traffic during the normal times coming or going. There are more highway routes I could take that are about 20 miles each way but end up taking around the same 25-30 minutes.
I can't charge at work, but they are considering it for the future. I'd have to pay for my own electricity. There is a nearby EVGo and Tesla Supercharger at a mall that is about 2-3 miles away from work that I could run to on a lunch break and charge if I was in a pinch.
Passengers - Typically I will have my two kids in the back either going or from school which is a short 5 minute ride, and then depending on work I'll have them in the back going to some type of sports practice. Possibly another kid if I have to help carpool. I don't need a ton of cargo room, but I do coach baseball and soccer so I need the cargo area large enough to be able to hold the gear.
Other cars - My wife drives a three row SUV that we use for vacations. We don't need this car to be a vacation car.
Other things to consider - In the summer months we tend to stay with family for a majority of it. I'll be commuting 60 miles each way when this happens. While I could charge at the destination, I'd prefer not to since I don't want to make things awkward and seem like I'm mooching (it's not my house). There is an EVGo charger about half way between work and this summer shore house that I could use regularly. How long would it take? Do I charge to, say, 80% and then leave?
So, I have concerns about charging when on the road specifically the DC charging. I know the Teslas are super, super fast... I don't want to have to be on the road at 12 AM coming home from work on a 60 minute drive and have to stop for 45 more minutes regularly.
Other cars/options I'm looking at:
1. Just buy out the Forester for around $19,000 plus taxes.
2. Consider a Toyota Venza mild-hybrid that launches this year.
3. Consider a Subaru Outback or new Subaru Forester for the low $30,000's plus taxes.
4. Consider a Toyota RAV4 Prime PHEV to take advantage of electricity's low cost and do virtually all daily driving (non-summer) with it.
5. Consider a full EV like the Bolt and deal with the infrequent need to DCFC
6. Consider a moonshot EV like the Tesla Model Y and get more range (300+ miles) and faster DCFC as needed.
Lack of adaptive cruise and lane centering functions (SuperCruise) is a little concerning. I have Adaptive in my Forester now, but not active lane centering.
Cost of PHEV seems high, because I still have to do ICE-related maintenance on time.
Thanks for your input.
Well, pricing is out for the RAV4 Prime!Yes the RAV will be a serious contender as well because of that. I think it will all depend on price. Again I am leasing so I can’t really make a decision until next summer one way or the other because the difference in trade in value with what I owe on the lease is considerable.
The PHEV is really the best of both worlds without the inconvenience of charging.
I love the idea of helping the environment and saving money at the pump at the same time, but it seems to be a little bit ... too inconvenient. As I mentioned above its possible I may be a better candidate for a PHEV.
If Toyota can launch the RAV4 Prime in the low 30’s with a top trim in the low 40’s and have the full $7500 federal credit plus the state credit based off the electric range, I would have a hard time justifying anything else.
Part of the problem though is that gas engines are pretty efficient highway but not city for sure. So it would take years and possibly never reach cost parity.