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Discussion Starter #1
Oooo...another drooler....the Porsche Taycan has arrived! What a beautiful Porsche! And it doesn't have a cast iron boat anchor hanging out the back. 馃槈 But here's what's really interesting...it has a two speed transmission! That's for better efficiency at highway speeds, and, it allows for much higher top speeds that Porsche drivers would expect. Also it has three electric motors, two in the rear and one in the front. The other interesting thing is the higher operating voltage of 480 volts. That allows for faster charging. But good luck trying to find a charging station with that capability. Lovely vehicle though.
 

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Pvillerob: By "operating voltage" do you mean the battery voltage applied to the motor? If so, how would that allow for faster charging? Does that term mean "charging voltage"? We already have many DCFC EVSE with voltages at or above 480V. {Many early DCLevel 2 EVSE were 400V/100A/40kW.} Electrify America stations routinely have 150 kW and 350 kW plugs. I think I read (I may be wrong) that the 350 kW is achieved by 875V and 400A (875 x 400 = 350,000). The Taycan will be one of the first EVs (hopefully, of many) that can accept this level of charging power.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Yep, you got it, I was wrong. The Taycan uses 800 volts, not 480. "The Taycan can charge at a maximum of 270kw, which enables boosting the battery from 5 percent to 80 percent in 22.5min. But this requires using new 350kw high output charging stations; that's more power than even the most powerful Tesla superchargers offer. "

"There's no official EPA numbers yet, but the European cycle puts the longest range Taycan at 280 miles. Using the Model S's Euro-vs-U.S. fuel economy figures as a yardstick, we predict the Taycan's highest EPA rating will be somewhere between 260and 270 miles. "

The thing that cracks me up and makes me shake my head is Porsche's naming convention: they're calling it the Taycan Turbo/Turbo S, even though the car HAS no internal combustion engine, much less a turbocharger. I guess EV is just too plebian for Porschephiles.
 

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Porsche Taycan Turbo S
Okay... why is the word "Turbo" used in this all-electric vehicle's name?

We have turbo electricity now? (n)


Edit.. just noticed @Pvillerob just mentioned the same dumb naming scheme.
 

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Oooo...another drooler....the Porsche Taycan has arrived!
Here is the current problem of the upcoming droolers. They are magnificent vehicles that are woefully inefficient with the price paid in mobility. You can have a lot of fun burning electrons fast, then watch the sun move in the sky while the battery recharges on (one of the few) chargers that supply up to 270kW for the Taycan. (May you not have to opt for a 100kW or 50kW charger!)

The Taycan on the European WLTP (World Light Duty Test Protocol) rates 450km or (279mi). EPA ratings would suggest about 223 miles (see: https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2019/09/04/porsche-taycan-delivers-performance-misses-on-range-and-efficiency/#e155b9f3567d)

Recall that WLTP or EPA test cycles are for routine driving, not the crush-you-in-the-seat acceleration or 200kph plus driving you should do with these vehicles. That means the Porsche Taycan has a rated efficiency of 2.9mi/kWh (344Wh/mile) with the specified 93 kWh battery at 279 miles of range.

That's 2.4 mi/kWh (417 Wh/mi) if you compute it at 223 miles. That's 2.4 mi/kWh with some upside and a lot of downside in winter, higher speeds, or whatever factor you will use for a spectacular performance vehicle.

You can then recharge at 270kW max, over a reasonable SOC range.

I argue that after you reach a suitable range, the only factor affecting driving mobility (getting from point A to B) is the ratio of charge rate to discharge rate. See: https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ice-and-ev-networks.33818/

By this metric, Tesla is much more efficient and therefore closer to the goal, even with 144kW supercharging.

These droolers are beautiful to see, and probably a blast to drive. Unfortunately, you have to realize these are much like the earlier muscle cars where you heard the sound of Niagra Falls in your Holley Quadrajet 1200 every time you passed a car on I-80.
 

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Some computers used to have "turbo" buttons... and my overpriced Chinese razor blades are "Mach 3 turbo". Don't understand marketing at all. There's no way I'd want something approaching the speed of sound near my face, or a turbocharger for that matter.

At this point they are just terms of masculinity to feed the macho image.

Tesla has essentially 2 speeds in their dual motor vehicles. They use a more efficient and more costly permanent magnet motor geared for highway cruising speed (in the rear I believe), and a cheaper/less efficient induction motor in the front to assist when more power or grip is needed.

My sense is that dual motors is a more elegant solution to gearing than an actual gearbox.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Marketing is attaching the latest buzzword to whatever you want to sell, whether the term is relevant or not. Your "turbo" razor is a great example.馃檮

Sure, the Taycan isn't that practical. What Porsche really is? Ok, that's debatable. Certainly, you're not going to go out and do a bunch of 0 to 60 runs, then expect it to drive you to Reno. Can't argue with you there. You can do either one, not both. For a true electric sports car by one of the world's best car makers, it's a respectable start.
 

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Darn transmission union, lobbied Porsche to keep their jobs.
 

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With any type of options this car will be about $180,000 and approach $230,000. You could get almost two Tesla Model S with ludicrous mode and close to 400 mile range. The range of the Porsche is not enough for its price tag. Tesla has won the battle for battery size for range.
 

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How did they manage to do so poorly with a transmission?

The range is low, despite the reasonable 93.4 kWh battery, as the Taycan fails on the efficiency side with the combined result of 488 Wh/mi (303 Wh/km). That is worse than the two least efficient models: Audi e-tron and Jaguar I-PACE.

The 69 MPGe (or 49 kWh/100 miles) rating includes charging losses.

2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo EPA numbers:


  • range of 201 miles (323.4 km)
  • energy consumption:
    • combined: 488 Wh/mi (303 Wh/km)
    • city: 496 Wh/mi (308 Wh/km)
    • highway: 475 Wh/mi(295 Wh/km)
About 2 miles per kWh? That makes it nearly as expensive per mile to drive as my Prius.
 

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How did they manage to do so poorly with a transmission?
Extra weight, mechanical drag, for little or no increase in performance. Every bit of weight and volume they take up would be better spent on motor and/or battery.

Of the handful of production electric motorcycles, those with multi-gear transmissions have had the worst efficiency/range.
 

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Extra weight, mechanical drag, for little or no increase in performance. Every bit of weight and volume they take up would be better spent on motor and/or battery.

Of the handful of production electric motorcycles, those with multi-gear transmissions have had the worst efficiency/range.
In some sense adding a transmission is more complex than engineering an electric motor to perform appropriately without one. I'm just surprised they went that route rather than engineer a more suitable motor. I wonder if that means they are using off the shelf parts to build this?

What would we consider to be the essence of a vehicle brand, anyhow? Most of the parts are sourced from vendors. In my mind, the engine is the essence of a vehicle brand because they are very complex and usually not outsourced to other manufacturers. In my view, that's the 1 thing build as well as you can whether it's an ICE or electric motor.
 

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And at an EA site, which is the only place to find 800 volt charging, you have one unit out of four with 800 volts. If that unit is down, as our local one was several days ago, you are charging at 50 kW on 400 volts, unless you go for a $460 optional higher amperage onboard 400 volt-to-800 volt inverter.

 
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