[BehindBars]

I love my 2024 Bolt EUV, but I keep a Z71 CCLB diesel Colorado on a pad, under a cover, behind my house for these chores..

2024 Bolt EUV?

 

[bigoilbob]

2024 Bolt EUV?

Thanks Cliffie C. Obviously 2023. If it's not in my bio, and I can put it there, I will.

 

[BoltOutOfHell]

We're looking at small camper trailers and are currently looking at a used 13' Scamp to pair with our 2017 Bolt Premier. I figured I'd write up a short post just to outline "what we've thought of so far" so that folks with more direct experience with towing / Scamps might be able to offer advice (saw references to @jmcbrew and @SpicyBolt having towed Scamps in the past).

• 2 adults, 2 kids, doing local in-state car camping trips
• We've got a 2" Torklift Ecohitch installed
• We're getting a 7-pin connector installed next week (figured I'd pay someone who's done it before vs. DIY mostly for the added fun of running the 12v from the front of the car)
• Installing Airlift 1000 airbags (60909) in the rear suspension tomorrow with my neighbor to help with suspension sag
• No trailer brake controller yet. The Scamp we're looking at has electric brakes but they are not connected at the moment; figure one trip being conservative is probably OK given it weighs 900ish dry and the Bolt starts around 3500lb...
• Yep, I know this will knock our efficiency down to the 2-3mi/kWh range depending on speed, elevation, and weather, and we'll have to carefully pick DCFC locations if we want to avoid disconnecting to plug in.

I haven't picked a ball mount yet, but that's an obvious "do not pass go do not collect $200" before we hook anything up. The Scamp isn't in the same city as our home, so I'm thinking that means I need to buy or borrow an adjustable ball hitch, or carefully try to measure my existing hitch height / ask for ball height measurements on the Scamp when level, to estimate the needed amount of rise. Is that about right?

Curious to hear what I may be missing, as this is our first foray into towing. Hitches have been great for bike rack usage the last few years, but towing is a next level endeavor.

I watched a guy on Youtube letting his 10 yr. old clean engine parts with gasoline. What could possibly go wrong?

As to towing with a sub-compact EV that is not rated for towing? Let's see. Tires could overheat and fail. Brakes could overheat and fade/fail. Drivetrain could overheat and sustain damage or catch fire. The trailer could become unstable, sway, and overturn the car. The handling characteristics of the car, and the traction control system, will be adversely affected. Your children could be injured and you could be charged with negligence. Your insurance company could deny a claim. You could be sued and lose everything.

But hey, nothing should stand in the way of a project!

Short wheelbase and towing

 

[bigoilbob]

I watched a guy on Youtube letting his 10 yr. old clean engine parts with gasoline. What could possibly go wrong?

As to towing with a sub-compact EV that is not rated for towing? Let's see. Tires could overheat and fail. Brakes could overheat and fade/fail. Drivetrain could overheat and sustain damage or catch fire. The trailer could become unstable, sway, and overturn the car. The handling characteristics of the car, and the traction control system, will be adversely affected. Your children could be injured and you could be charged with negligence. Your insurance company could deny a claim. You could be sued and lose everything.

But hey, nothing should stand in the way of a project!

Short wheelbase and towing

I doubt that the drive train would overheat. Direct drive with a 7/1 (I think) reduction. But it would sure be loaded in a way it wasn't designed for. All else true and relevant.

 

[jmcbrew]

I doubt that the drive train would overheat. Direct drive with a 7/1 (I think) reduction. But it would sure be loaded in a way it wasn't designed for. All else true and relevant.

Yeah, let's also keep in mind that we are talking about towing a small, relatively light and aerodynamic fiberglass trailer than was designed to be towed by 4 cylinder cars from the early 1970s.

 

[jefro]

I used to buy 1/2 ton trucks. One time I worked for a company that only bought 1 tons. Found out real quick that the right tool for the job was a 1 ton.

 

[BehindBars]

I used to buy 1/2 ton trucks. One time I worked for a company that only bought 1 tons. Found out real quick that the right tool for the job was a 1 ton.

Seems nowadays some people think a 1 ton is the right tool for sole daily commutes to the office and back with no cargo.

 

[BoltOutOfHell]

I doubt that the drive train would overheat. Direct drive with a 7/1 (I think) reduction. But it would sure be loaded in a way it wasn't designed for. All else true and relevant.

To me the drive train includes the traction battery, the cabling, the relays and fuses, the inverter, the electric motor, the gear box, the CV joints and the front wheel bearings. But if you consider the drive train just to be the gear box, then I'm sure higher loads increase the temperature, but it is cooled by the cooling system. So maybe they'll be able to salvage the gearbox from the wreckage?

 

[bigoilbob]

Yeah, let's also keep in mind that we are talking about towing a small, relatively light and aerodynamic fiberglass trailer than was designed to be towed by 4 cylinder cars from the early 1970s.

Over 1500# empty. Easy to add hundreds of # with food, clothing, water. I'm all for durable, precision sized tow vehicles. a la Europe. This is a bad idea.

 

[Factoryhack]

Yeah, let's also keep in mind that we are talking about towing a small, relatively light and aerodynamic fiberglass trailer than was designed to be towed by 4 cylinder cars from the early 1970s.

You need to consider this is not an ordinary vehicle in the sense that it would behave anything like a 4 cylinder car from the early 70's, if overloaded.

BEVs are incredibly complex from a digital perspective even though they're relatively simple from a mechanical perspective relative to an ICE vehicle.

The max weight of passengers and cargo shown on the door placard is 873 lbs. Going significantly above that is outside the design limits of this platform.

In particular, the various modules that manage power output, braking, electronic stability control, regen, etc. have algorithms that make assumptions and adjust within a finite data range. Hook up a 1,000 lb. trailer on top of a near max passenger / cargo load and you get unknown consequences.

The other point mentioned earlier in the thread is doubts about the structural integrity of the attachment points for a trailer hitch.

GM actually sells a hitch for the Bolt, although they call it a "hitch carrier mount" designed for mounting bike racks or cargo boxes, etc. Max capacity is 110 lbs. That should speak volumes about what kind of loads GM is comfortable with loading on a Bolt EV hitch mount.

 

[jmcbrew]

Over 1500# empty. Easy to add hundreds of # with food, clothing, water. I'm all for durable, precision sized tow vehicles. a la Europe. This is a bad idea.

Huh… my Scamp didn’t weigh 1,500 pounds even loaded up for camping. It’s not fair to judge towing weight based on what someone might put in there. I mean, I could put five 180 pound people in my Bolt and be over the legal weight… and it is designed to carry five people!

 

[bigoilbob]

Huh… my Scamp didn’t weigh 1,500 pounds even loaded up for camping. It’s not fair to judge towing weight based on what someone might put in there. I mean, I could put five 180 pound people in my Bolt and be over the legal weight… and it is designed to carry five people!

It did.

Scamp 13 Fiberglass Lightweight Travel Trailer Camper - Standard Layout 1 Big Bed - Scamp Trailers

If you like the idea of a small, light weight travel trailer camper without the inconvenient setup, then the Scamp 13” is the perfect lite travel trailer for you. Standard Layout 1.

www.scamptrailers.com

.

"
1,500 lbs
13′ Trailers
The size that started it all. Our Standard 13' touches the scales at 1,500 lbs (without a bathroom) with a tongue weight of 200 lbs." This is without the big adders that we all load up.

I'm a Scamp lover. Our rehabbed 19' bed hitch got towed tens of thousands of miles, behind a sensible tow vehicle. And I have towed an Escape 5.0 TA behind a Colorado CCLB, Z71, diesel, so I'm not into wretchedly excessive prime movers. But get real...

 

[jmcbrew]

It did.

Scamp 13 Fiberglass Lightweight Travel Trailer Camper - Standard Layout 1 Big Bed - Scamp Trailers

If you like the idea of a small, light weight travel trailer camper without the inconvenient setup, then the Scamp 13” is the perfect lite travel trailer for you. Standard Layout 1.

www.scamptrailers.com

.

"
1,500 lbs
13′ Trailers
The size that started it all. Our Standard 13' touches the scales at 1,500 lbs (without a bathroom) with a tongue weight of 200 lbs." This is without the big adders that we all load up.

I'm a Scamp lover. Our rehabbed 19' bed hitch got towed tens of thousands of miles, behind a sensible tow vehicle. And I have towed an Escape 5.0 TA behind a Colorado CCLB, Z71, diesel, so I'm not into wretchedly excessive prime movers. But get real...

Well, that’s interesting… but I actually took mine to a truck scale and weighed it. The “base” weight is supposed to be around 900 pounds. Mine was about 1,200. Tongue weight was about 120 pounds after relocating the battery.

 

[bigoilbob]

Well, that’s interesting… but I actually took mine to a truck scale and weighed it. The “base” weight is supposed to be around 900 pounds. Mine was about 1,200. Tongue weight was about 120 pounds after relocating the battery.

Fair enough. An older model, with a lighter axle (Scamp girded up the axle ratings for the last few years) and less innards? But qualitatively, no change - especially given the universal need to (over) load up. Still a (very) bad idea.

I've safely towed a similar trailer with an '81 TD VW Quantum station wagon. At 78 hp, severely underpowered. But it had the frame, the (5 speed manual) engine/trannie combo, and the trailer brakes for me to max out at 50-55 m/h for thousands of miles.

Don't you think that if GM thought that towing was in any way a safe idea, they wouldn't pimp it?

 

[jefro]

Seems nowadays some people think a 1 ton is the right tool for sole daily commutes to the office and back with no cargo.

That is true. I had diesels when it was 99 cents a gallon and gas was $1.80

 

[jmcbrew]

Don't you think that if GM thought that towing was in any way a safe idea, they wouldn't pimp it?

No, I don’t. This has been the way of things with American car companies for years.

 

[bigoilbob]

That is true. I had diesels when it was 99 cents a gallon and gas was $1.80

Adjusted for inflation, that's what they should still be. I'm a petroleum engineer and am at a loss to fully explain the 21st century blow up in diesel prices. Certainly a change in feedstocks from shale production, coupled with reluctance to invest the cubic $ required for the needed refinery mods. But lots more political stuff way above me...

 

[PaPaSteve]

Here is a relevant trailer pulling article from Jennifer Sensiba writing for Clean Technica :

The “Peak of Mount Stupid” — What I Learned Pulling A Trailer Across Texas With My Bolt EUV

Good science and information from a dedicated EV enthusiast.
She has done a number of "trailer pulling" articles.

 

[bigoilbob]

Here is a relevant trailer pulling article from Jennifer Sensiba writing for Clean Technica :
The “Peak of Mount Stupid” — What I Learned Pulling A Trailer Across Texas With My Bolt EUV

Good science and information from a dedicated EV enthusiast.
She has done a number of "trailer pulling" articles.

Thanks. Made me read. Just the 100+ mile range achieved is bad enough, and a loaded 13' Scamp (new or old) wouldn't do any better. But IMO, she is also loading her motor/drive assembly more and for longer than designed. AGAIN, no problem with lower power/weight European style, ICE towing, with vehicles otherwise up for it. But personally, this painful to even imagine....

 

[jmcbrew]

I'm a petroleum engineer and am at a loss to fully explain the 21st century blow up in diesel prices.

I was told years ago that it was because oil companies prefer to ship as much diesel as possible over to Europe and get $9/US gallon for it. What we are left with is adjusted based on demand here in the US.