Chevy Bolt EV Forum banner
  • Hey Guest, welcome to ChevyBolt.org. We encourage you to register to engage in conversations about your Bolt.
1 - 20 of 39 Posts

Registered
Joined
4,478 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This only applies to DC charging over SAE Combo/CCS1/Combo1, NOT AC charging over J1772. Unless you KNOW the DC charger will EASILY (w/o excessive force, possibly flexing or breaking the locking tang on the handle), it it BEST to STOP charging BEFORE attempting to unplug a vehicle that is actively DC charging.

Possible methods to STOP first:
  • stop button on charger (not the handle)
  • stop button/action in charging network's app
  • stop button on the car's LCD (you may want to wake the car's or stereo's power button)
  • swiping your RFID card/NFC again (necessary on units like the ChargePoint CPE100 (https://www.chargepoint.com/files/install/install_guide_cpe100.pdf) which don't have touch screens or physical stop buttons beyond emergency stop)
  • last resort: emergency stop button, if any

See Experience with Electrify America, as to why. If you don't, you may break the locking tang on the handle and you might even cause massive arcing if charging hasn't stopped when you pulled out. Or, the broken tang can be a hazard for the next user OR, the handle might be rendered unsuable until it's repaired.

There's been discussion of this before. Examples at Fast charger locked to my car and My Experience DC Charging overnight at hotel. There seems to be confusion, which is no surprise given that it can be different than J1772 AC charging on GM and many other vehicles.
 

Registered
Volt, Polestar 2, R1T, Livewire One
Joined
1,346 Posts
The car shouldn't unlatch the handle unless it's not charging. This only applies on a DCFC connection though. I guess there's nothing preventing a broken latch on the handle from still letting the car charge though.
 

Registered
Joined
4,478 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
The car shouldn't unlatch the handle unless it's not charging. This only applies on a DCFC connection though. I guess there's nothing preventing a broken latch on the handle from still letting the car charge though.
Indeed on both of the above.

However, as I posted at Experience with Electrify America w/my short video at
that was intended for another discussion elsewhere, there are some CCS DC FCs where there IS enough clearance even w/the plug locked or "locked" to the car (handle's tang wasn't broken) for the tang to pivot enough w/o it flexing, to activate the microswitch in the handle and the car to unlock, all while charging.

On others, the movement of the tang is blocked enough so that it can barely move (or not at all) and you can't activate the microswitch or you can hear the microswitch click but there's no effect (charging keeps going).
 

Registered
Joined
4,478 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
FWIW, I did use another DC FC within the past few weeks that where you could press quite hard on button on the handle and it wouldn't trigger any charging stoppage nor unlock.

From looking at pages 240 and 241 of my '19 Bolt manual has this about DC charging:
6. Once charging, the DC vehicle plug will be locked to the DC charge port and cannot be disconnected while charging is active
...
Caution
Do not attempt to disconnect the DC vehicle plug while charging is active. This action may damage vehicle or charging station hardware.
...
Stop Charge
Controls on the charging station can be used to stop the charge process at any time.

To stop the charge when inside the vehicle, you may use the stop charging button on the Charging screen. See Programmable Charging 0 132.

There is also an available mobile app with several charging functions. See KeyPass 0 45.

Stop Charge 鈥 Automatic
When the vehicle no longer needs to use power from the charging station, it will stop charging and the DC vehicle plug will be unlocked from the DC charge port.
...
End Charge
1. Wait until the charging process has been fully stopped, the vehicle plug is unlocked, and the Charging Status Indicator is solid green or off.
If the vehicle plug does not unlock from the vehicle charge port after a charge, contact Roadside Assistance for assistance. See Roadside Assistance Program 0 337.
2. Unplug the DC vehicle plug from the DC charge port on the vehicle and close the dust cover.
 

Registered
Joined
4,478 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I stumbled across DC Fast Charger for EV Charging 鈥 TechLink about this re-badged Bosch/Delta (Products - EV Charging - DC Wallbox - Delta Group) DC charger. At the bottom it says:
To charge the Bolt EV, unlatch the DC charging dust cover on the charge port in order to plug in the charge cord. Follow the steps on the DC Fast Charger to start charging. The DC plug will be locked and cannot be disconnected while charging is active. The Charge Status indictor on top of the vehicle鈥檚 instrument panel, near the windshield, will illuminate green and the horn will chirp when properly connected.

To stop charging at any time, use the controls on the DC Fast Charger or touch the Stop button on the vehicle鈥檚 Battery information screen.
Notice it doesn't say anything about stopping the charge by pushing the button on the handle.
 

Administrator
Joined
6,432 Posts
I believe the Proximity Pilot pin on J1772 is used to sense when the button on the plug is pressed (latch released), opening the circuit on the AC power pin(s). Since DCFC uses the DC power pins, the latch would seem to be relegated to holding the plug in place. Proximity pilot is likely only used to detect if the plug is properly latched before allowing the DCFC session to proceed with initialization and authentication.

I have always understood the EV or EVSE (or app) must be used to end a DCFC session before attempting to remove the plug. I believe this is described in the CCS specifications.
 

Registered
2017 Bolt EV
Joined
10,148 Posts
Possible methods to STOP first:
  • stop button on charger (not the handle)
You can press the stop button on the handle, too. This will stop the charger and unlock the handle. But it would be prudent to verify that the charger has stopped before you try to pull the handle out of the charge port - you can tell by looking at the charging light in the middle of the dash.
 

Registered
Joined
4,478 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I don't see how that contradicts anything I said...?
I wrote in part:
"On others, the movement of the tang is blocked enough so that it can barely move (or not at all) and you can't activate the microswitch or you can hear the microswitch click but there's no effect (charging keeps going). "

I've encountered the above when DC FCing my Bolt. On those, it doesn't seem like you can't stop it via the handle. You can feel flexing and might even hear the microswitch in the handle click but it doesn't stop.

I've tried. There doesn't seem to be a two stage release.
 

Administrator
Joined
6,432 Posts
I believe the spec is for the EVSE or EV to discontinue the flow of electricity before removing the handle. If the proximity sensor is active, it likely signals to the EVSE to stop, which takes a second or two. With AC charging, the proximity sensor disengages the power at the pins on the handle and is instantaneous.

I don't think I have seen a DCFC that instructs to stop a charge using the handle, it seems dangerous if one assumes the same timing that AC charging does.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cwerdna

Registered
2017 Bolt EV
Joined
10,148 Posts
I've encountered the above when DC FCing my Bolt. On those, it doesn't seem like you can't stop it via the handle. You can feel flexing and might even hear the microswitch in the handle click but it doesn't stop.
Sure, but the "stop" button on the charger itself could be inoperable too. That doesn't mean that you don't tell people that it's a valid way to stop the charger. The plug button is supposed to stop the charger, the fact that some may not do it isn't a reason not to use it on the ones where it works. The only caveat is that you don't try to pull the plug out of the port until you're sure the charger has actually stopped, the same caveat that you'd advise if the charger's actual "stop" button wasn't working or in fact if any of the other ways didn't work for some reason.

Such is my thought, anyway. 馃し鈥嶁檪锔
 

Registered
Joined
4,478 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I believe the spec is for the EVSE or EV to discontinue the flow of electricity before removing the handle. If the proximity sensor is active, it likely signals to the EVSE to stop, which takes a second or two. With AC charging, the proximity sensor disengages the power at the pins on the handle and is instantaneous.

I don't think I have seen a DCFC that instructs to stop a charge using the handle, it seems dangerous if one assumes the same timing that AC charging does.
On the latter part, I've seen a few that do eventually cause charging to stop. The BTC Power EVgo one in my video surprised me in terms of how it worked.

I've finally did try on a EA BTC Power one months ago and it seemed like there were two stages from my foggy memory. I did try on a ChargePoint CPE 250 a few months back and IIRC, the action lets just felt kinda wrong and mechanically clunky (e.g. not a smooth action and with mechanical binding) but it worked. IIRC, it didn't feel like you should do it this way.
Sure, but the "stop" button on the charger itself could be inoperable too.
Some don't even have stop buttons (e.g. ChargePoint CPE 100 and its other re-brands of that IES charger). On the CPE100, you probably can stop it via the app if the networking connection is working. On ones where the networking is busted (yes, the CPE 100 at ChargePoint HQ is like this): you have to stop it via one of these methods: swipe RFID card used to start the session, stop button in car or emergency stop.
That doesn't mean that you don't tell people that it's a valid way to stop the charger. The plug button is supposed to stop the charger, the fact that some may not do it isn't a reason not to use it on the ones where it works. The only caveat is that you don't try to pull the plug out of the port until you're sure the charger has actually stopped, the same caveat that you'd advise if the charger's actual "stop" button wasn't working or in fact if any of the other ways didn't work for some reason.
It isn't a valid way when it doesn't work and could result in breaking the tang on the handle, rendering that handle inoperative or dangerous for that person or the next.

IIRC, the ChargePoint CPE 250 units at ChargePoint HQ in Campbell CA and maybe the CPE100 there too were the cases where it didn't work and you could feel flexing and maybe even the microswitch in the handle being triggered but charging didn't stop.

Again, I've pointed out so many instructions from both the car side and charger side telling people to stop DC FCing via other means. They don't talk about stopping via pressing the button on the handle.

It's even true from charging providers.

How do I stop the charging session?
To end the charging session, just press the 鈥淪top鈥 button at the bottom right of the charger screen.
You can also stop a charging session through the Electrify America app. Select 鈥淪top Charging鈥 on the Current Session screen.
  • Tips:
  • If you do not want to start a charging session, but have already plugged in, you might need to press 鈥淐ancel鈥 on the charger screen to release the connector from your vehicle.
  • Depending on your vehicle model, you may also need to unlock your car to remove the connector
How do I stop a charge and disconnect?
...
December 03, 2020 17:41
...
It is very simple to stop the charge and disconnect from our chargers. You can stop the DC Fast charge via the screen on the charger by hitting the stop button. Also, the DC Fast charger will automatically stop after a 30-60 minute session has been reached or your car is at full battery capacity. Our Level 2 chargers will stop if you remove the connector from your car or your battery has reached full capacity.
If you are having trouble stopping a charge or disconnecting from the charger and need help, call our customer support team at (877) 494-3833.
 

Registered
2017 Bolt EV
Joined
10,148 Posts
It isn't a valid way when it doesn't work and could result in breaking the tang on the handle, rendering that handle inoperative or dangerous for that person or the next.
You and I disagree here. In my opinion the most important piece of advice is to make sure the charger has stopped before you try to pull the plug out. Because there are reasons why it may not have stopped no matter which way you do it.

Perhaps the disconnect is the worry that someone will push the button and then immediately try to yank the plug out. Yeah, that could be bad, hence the advice to make sure the charger has stopped first. Push button, verify charging has stopped, then yank.

Again, I've pointed out so many instructions from both the car side and charger side telling people to stop DC FCing via other means. They don't talk about stopping via pressing the button on the handle.
They don't talk about stopping it via the car's menus either, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid way to stop the charging session.

Anyway, that's my several cent's worth.
 

Registered
Joined
4,478 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
They don't talk about stopping it via the car's menus either, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid way to stop the charging session.
Not every car has a means of stopping via a menu. I had a Leaf w/CHAdeMO for 2 years. I used its CHAdeMO inlet ~16 times. I don't recall any sort of UI on the dash to stop CHAdeMO charging. I recall always stopping via the charger's UI first.

I will admit that it's possible that EA's and EVgo's instructions are written to be simple and cover both connector types.
 

Registered
Joined
1,592 Posts
A number of good points in this thread. One constant annoyance is that between broken/unresponsive screens and unreliable apps, there isn't really a 'standard' way to stop the charge across different charger models, other than the car's own charge screen, which usually requires futzing around (if the car is off, which it often is).

Ironically, tapping the button on the charger connector and waiting for the car to display 'Unable to charge' is probably more reliable than any of the other charger-based methods.
 

Registered
Joined
4,478 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
the car's own charge screen, which usually requires futzing around (if the car is off, which it often is).

Ironically, tapping the button on the charger connector and waiting for the car to display 'Unable to charge' is probably more reliable than any of the other charger-based methods.
IIRC, one can just push the stereo's power button/knob and navigate to the screen with it (via energy button?) then press stop.

As for "tapping the button on the charger connector", on at least 1 of them, you can't as I said. You're mechanically blocked and can't seem to. As I wrote earlier:
"IIRC, the ChargePoint CPE 250 units at ChargePoint HQ in Campbell CA and maybe the CPE100 there too were the cases where it didn't work and you could feel flexing and maybe even the microswitch in the handle being triggered but charging didn't stop."

Their CCS CPE 100 was broken yesterday. Wouldn't start charging. Hit an internal fault error. I took off. I just wanted to see if it was free since it was off network.

I wasn't going to bother w/the other 25 cent per kWh DC FCs there since I was going to use some free L2's or I could use 19 cent/kWh DC FCs elsewhere.
 

Registered
2017 Bolt
Joined
75 Posts
Gotta finally comment here, in an attempt to reduce the chance that a rookie EV-and-DCFC user will resort to using the emergency stop button on the DCFC. With a DCFC session in progress (not already ended due to being at 100%), a strong and long push on the big plug's button should, as I understand, cause the EV to command the DCFC to bring the charger's DC current down to zero. Once that is done the Bolt will open the little shiny tab that is locking the big plug onto the Bolt's receptacle. The other ways of stopping the DCFC session and bringing the DC current to zero as already described above are also fine, of course.

In my experience this strong and long push on the plug's button might take 3 seconds, and if there is not too much ambient noise it might be possible to then hear the DCFC winding down (cooling fan?). That would confirm the DC current is down at zero and so now a pull would work to safely remove the plug. Could also bend down and look for that shiny tab to be in the up position to confirm that the lock is not in effect any more. The Bolt's design with this shiny locking tab is meant to hold the big plug in place and so prevent the user from interrupting a high DC current (an arc) by somehow forcing the plug off when the current is still above zero.

My purpose of preventing use of the DCFC's emergency stop button is due to the possible long recovery time to get the DCFC unit re-set and ready for the next user. It might, on non-communication-equipped units, require a site visit by a service provider. Some units may have an emergency stop button that, once used, can be rotated to do a re-set right there and then.

A related tip is that if the DCFC cable is short or the EV's port is not close enough to the DCFC, there might be a lot of "side-pull" of the big plug against the EV's receptacle. The resulting plastic-on-plastic friction might make it seem that the plug is still locked onto the car even after it is clear that the session was properly stopped. Relieve the side-pull and try another pull. Happy DCFC-ing!
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top