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Regarding subjectivity of aesthetics; nearly all of us will consider the huge faux grills of the i3 and Bolt to be outdated in the future.

Model S and 3 styling are leading trends, not current trends.

My aesthetic taste doesn't just dislike faux grills, but despises them. It's like having a fake smoke stack on something that doesn't have a need to release pollution.
 

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Great final video from Sandy Monroe on the 2017 Chevy Bolt. I doubt he will have another one anytime soon as there really is not much mechanical difference from a 2017 to a 2022. This really highlights how far behind GM is compared to Tesla.

You stammering fool !
 

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Almost bought a '64 Avanti once. I decided I'd be happier with a photo of the car than the car itself.
 

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He's missing the point of what that Bolt was supposed to be, IMHO. To me, it wasn't supposed to be a huge off-the-shelf successful EV that everyone was supposed to want (I mean, GM had an order for a set number of batteries from LG right from the start, no?). I think the Bolt was a way for GM to get some skin in the EV game, establish relationships with battery suppliers, and conduct a big beta test for their EV platform / systems all at the same time.

The best way for GM to accomplish these goals was to make a small, "affordable" EV that will hit the sales numbers equaling the number of cars they planned on producing.

Looking at it through this lens, and not the lens of Tesla's mindset (they have to make kick-ass cars because their lives depend on it), I think the Bolt is a success for GM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
He's missing the point of what that Bolt was supposed to be, IMHO. To me, it wasn't supposed to be a huge off-the-shelf successful EV that everyone was supposed to want (I mean, GM had an order for a set number of batteries from LG right from the start, no?). I think the Bolt was a way for GM to get some skin in the EV game, establish relationships with battery suppliers, and conduct a big beta test for their EV platform / systems all at the same time.

The best way for GM to accomplish these goals was to make a small, "affordable" EV that will hit the sales numbers equaling the number of cars they planned on producing.

Looking at it through this lens, and not the lens of Tesla's mindset (they have to make kick-ass cars because their lives depend on it), I think the Bolt is a success for GM.
Well, GM already had that relationship with LG Chem from the Volt, unless I am wrong about the battery supplier. The Bolt is supposed to be an "affordable" EV but with an MSRP between $38k and $43k I am not sure they met that goal. It is only affordable now because of the deep discounts. Once the price dropped to ~$20k you saw them start flying off the lot with little to no advertising. I believe his comparisons of the construction quality and components is fair as that is a reasonable EV to EV comparison and no different than comparing the design and build quality of a Honda Accord to a Chevy Camaro. He also gives huge props to the Bolt motor design and questions why Tesla is not using a similar design.

The Bolt at ~$20k is a very good car. The Bolt at $40k is meh. A used Bolt for $15k really can't be beat in the EV world.
 

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So, it was originally based upon the Gamma 2 platform but was then redesigned. I am not sure I would call it a full clean sheet design.
I think you're being needlessly pedantic with that assessment. The most important parts of the EV are how the body design integrates with the battery (the difference between the Bolt and Volt cabin is a great illustration of how important this is), the drivetrain, and the high power electronics. Those are all brand new with the Bolt. It's not something like a Smart car or a Tracker where they took an existing body and adapted the battery and drivetrain to fit into it.

Suspension components are essentially commodity items like bolts (the fastener kind). There's no need to reinvent and/or redesign them for every new car, you can just pick and adapt the ones that are best suited to the application.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I think you're being needlessly pedantic with that assessment. The most important parts of the EV are how the body design integrates with the battery (the difference between the Bolt and Volt cabin is a great illustration of how important this is), the drivetrain, and the high power electronics. Those are all brand new with the Bolt. It's not something like a Smart car or a Tracker where they took an existing body and adapted the battery and drivetrain to fit into it.

Suspension components are essentially commodity items like bolts (the fastener kind). There's no need to reinvent and/or redesign them for every new car, you can just pick and adapt the ones that are best suited to the application.
I agree.
 

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Sandy " people didn't want an ugly little car" lol



I agree with some of what he is saying but it really comes down to is if Tesla had a vagina Sandy would be all over it :eek:
 

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Sandy prioritizes simplicity even at the expense of repairability.
Yeah, what happens when something in a Tesla overloads and there are no fuses? Does the wire loom burn up? Not having a frunk is why the Bolt has all of it's mechanical bits on display and in a location easy to work on... comparable components in a Tesla are hidden in the side panels of the car (between interior wall and exterior wall) where they are a pain in the butt to troubleshoot or repair / replace.

Personal view, the Bolt was fantastic in 2017, and it is still the best value on the market. If you are not into road trips and the size is big enough for you then it is darn near the perfect EV. If you want to road trip the slow DCFC (fastest charging non-tesla on the market in 2017, slowest charging on the market in 2021) it leaves something to be desired compared to its competition.

Keith
 

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Sandy Munro is entitled to his opinion of the Bolt, but he sure was throwing a lot of hugs and kisses at Tesla. Apart from the fact that he was seriously knocking many aspects of the Bolt, the main thing that angered my wife and myself is that he arrogantly said he was going to just junk the car, throwing parts into a dumpster. I'm guessing he has never heard of high school or community college automotive technical programs that would love to have a Bolt to help their students understand new technology. There would be no liability issues, since the car would not be driven, and it would be a good write-off (and good will) for his company. Not sure how they acquire their EV's but I doubt GM would have a problem with that. I must be missing something...
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
They Buy all of their own vehicles unless it was contracted by the company asking for the report. We have no idea if he was contractually obligated to dispose of the car or not. Why dont you post a comment and ask?
 

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They Buy all of their own vehicles unless it was contracted by the company asking for the report. We have no idea if he was contractually obligated to dispose of the car or not. Why don't you post a comment and ask?
Sounds like a good idea, but the car is probably already junked, and I doubt he would welcome input from an outsider. Hopefully someone within his company will wake up on the advantages of contributing to tech schools in the future.
 

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Sandy prioritizes simplicity even at the expense of repairability.
Sandy makes up excuses to support what ever statements he stumbles into. Much of what he says is complete non-sense and is not even supported by what his video is showing.

He skips over stuff like Tesla adding an oil filter because the crappy gearbox design was eating itself.

He makes a big deal over the large aluminum die castings Tesla is using and does not mention that this has been an industry trend for decades. My Camaro has some quite large structural die castings.

It's all nothing more that catering to your audience. He is catering to the largest audience. It's just a shame that he cannot do it without exaggeration and out right false hoods.
 

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The irony is the latest car issue of Consumers Reports (April, '21) rates the Bolt reliability higher than any of the Tesla models.

GM was first in the market for an affordable EV, a big advantage. They are dropping the price of the Bolt every year now, to increase market share. It's marketing 101.
A competitor coming in later has to be cheaper or significantly better. The Tesla is priced in a different market segment, and it hasn't fared that well in Consumer Report testing and reliability.

It's all about price/volume with a new product. To increase volume, you must lower the price. And that's what GM is doing with the Bolt.

I don't have a problem with this fellow's observations, but he's coming at it from a purely technical basis. Different markets. A bit like comparing a Porsche to a Chevrolet.

Good luck, by the way, trying to get one of those Hummer 1000 HP EV monsters. They sold out in a minute.
 

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His point is simplification of design. Tesla has simplified their design to require less cabling. Less cabling means lower cost and better power delivery. Honestly there is no reason that the 2022 Bolt could not have been a full redesign and consolidated and simplified all of the components and given the ability for the Bolt to have a useable Frunk. And and option for AWD. But no, the 2022 models are mechanically the same but a body and interior refresh. That will only work until Tesla decides to enter the market with a mid to low $20k car. When that happens it is game over Bolt.
Well according to Sandy. In realty, Tesla hid much of the cabling and accessory electronics in the battery pack. So great, now you have to pull the battery pack and take it apart to work on all sorts of stuff that should have never been in there. They simplified nothing! In fact, Tesla has the most complex battery structure in the industry with over 25 times as many parts. Somehow Sandy glosses over this and claims that it makes the car much easier to assemble. Somehow all the assembly effort required for jamming the stuff into the battery pack does not count. Nonsense!

GM could have had a frunk but chose instead to make the car 2 feet shorter than the model 3 but with nearly the same interior room. In this regard, it's a very volume optimized solution. It's clearly ahead of it's competition. It does look like a funky sub-compact but the actual utility is way more than that. It accommodates 4 adults better than a lot of compacts! Did Sandy even mention this?

Why do we not say, "why did Tesla waste all that space on a frunk?" "Are they leaving room for an ICE power plant?"
 
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