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His point is simplification of design. Tesla has simplified their design to require less cabling. Less cabling means lower cost and better power delivery. Honestly there is no reason that the 2022 Bolt could not have been a full redesign and consolidated and simplified all of the components and given the ability for the Bolt to have a useable Frunk. And and option for AWD. But no, the 2022 models are mechanically the same but a body and interior refresh. That will only work until Tesla decides to enter the market with a mid to low $20k car. When that happens it is game over Bolt.
I'm pretty sure a complete re-design would add considerably to the vehicle's cost ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Why do we not say, "why did Tesla waste all that space on a frunk?" "Are they leaving room for an ICE power plant?"
Tesla Has space for a Frunk because of the design of their electronics. Their converters are opposite the drive motors. They also have a much larger trunk as well as a frunk. The Bolt has amazing passenger space for a car its size or really any size. But I can't take my family to Costco and still drive home like I could in my Subaru or Volt or a TM3. I drive a Bolt because to get a Tesla with a hatch is double the cost of the price I paid for the Bolt.

Let me ask you this. If you had to pay MSRP for a Bolt Premier at $43,000 or buy a Single Motor M3 at $40,000, which do you choose. If you still go with the Bolt I would love to hear why. And it can't be Elon bad man.

A Bolt at $20-$30k is a great buy. A Bolt at $40k, not so much. This forum has exploded with new users in the last 9 months, why? Because GM basically had a Fire Sale on Bolts and finally found the price point people were willing to pay. Yet to be seen how that will work out for the BEUV.
 

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If you had to pay MSRP for a Bolt Premier at $43,000 or buy a Single Motor M3 at $40,000
Probably the M3.
I just checked and on AutoTrader a 2019 M3 with over 19k miles is going for $38,000. That's $11,000 more than my brand new 2020 Bolt. But I still don't understand how a car with 19k miles is selling for only $2,000 less than a brand new one. Who would spend that much money on a used car and not chip in an extra $2,000 for new?
 

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"Good luck, by the way, trying to get one of those Hummer 1000 HP EV monsters. They sold out in a minute."

Hummer: a ridiculous idea.
EV Hummer: REALLY RIDICULOUS idea!
 

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"Good luck, by the way, trying to get one of those Hummer 1000 HP EV monsters. They sold out in a minute."

Hummer: a ridiculous idea.
EV Hummer: REALLY RIDICULOUS idea!
I totally agree. But GM was never producing an EV Hummer for practical purposes, but rather as a PR "look at me" move. There will be some people out there who this appeals to, and will probably be a hoot to drive, but this is clearly a one off (I hope).
 

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Probably the M3.
I just checked and on AutoTrader a 2019 M3 with over 19k miles is going for $38,000. That's $11,000 more than my brand new 2020 Bolt. But I still don't understand how a car with 19k miles is selling for only $2,000 less than a brand new one. Who would spend that much money on a used car and not chip in an extra $2,000 for new?
Because there is a waiting period from Tesla that is currently quite high so people are willing to pay the price to get one immediately.
 

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Let me ask you this. If you had to pay MSRP for a Bolt Premier at $43,000 or buy a Single Motor M3 at $40,000, which do you choose. If you still go with the Bolt I would love to hear why. And it can't be Elon bad man.
The Bolt.

I don't like the dash of Teslas, I don't like the size of the Tesla, people attack Teslas, I don't like the logo...just kidding the logo is fine.

The Bolt has the 360 camera, better one pedal driving (so I've read), and is the size I want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Probably the M3.
I just checked and on AutoTrader a 2019 M3 with over 19k miles is going for $38,000. That's $11,000 more than my brand new 2020 Bolt. But I still don't understand how a car with 19k miles is selling for only $2,000 less than a brand new one. Who would spend that much money on a used car and not chip in an extra $2,000 for new?
I really wanted a used TMS but even the 2012's still cost more than a new Bolt. Right now is not a good time to own a Tesla out of warranty. In a few more years parts availability and Tesla support may come around. Honestly that is the biggest drawback to owning a Tesla is the inability to really repair it yourself. But that is really no different than a BMW or Mercedes.
 

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Let me ask you this. If you had to pay MSRP for a Bolt Premier at $43,000 or buy a Single Motor M3 at $40,000, which do you choose.
I did pay full MSRP for my '17 Premier. But back then there was this $7,500 tax credit thing and the lower cost M3 didn't exist.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
I did pay full MSRP for my '17 Premier. But back then there was this $7,500 tax credit thing and the lower cost M3 didn't exist.
Yes, 4 years ago it was a different story altogether. Same with the Volt. Until the last year of the Volt there was not much discounting going on. When you bought the Bolt your realistic choices where TMS, TMX or Nissan Leaf. Imagine how different the EV world would be if GM had decided then to drop the starting price to $30k and with a tax would make the car $23k in 2017. But in 2017 most people still believed that EV's were not going to happen. Even now many people are clueless about them and don't think it will happen.
 

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...Let me ask you this. If you had to pay MSRP for a Bolt Premier at $43,000 or buy a Single Motor M3 at $40,000, which do you choose. If you still go with the Bolt I would love to hear why...
This is a harder question for me than it might appear. On a pure performance and technology perspective, I would get the Tesla. However, long term maintenance would be a significant concern, and makes the comparison much more even for me.

Before the Costco rebate came back this spring, I was looking at used EVs, and cross-shopped used Bolts with used BMW i3's. I actually preferred the i3 in the beginning, but realized that maintenance costs would become an issue, so I ended up limiting my search to Bolts. Many other BEV options aren't sold new in my non-CARB state, so buying used is an even bigger risk in terms of maintenance.
 

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I found this fascinating. Opinion verses fact is an issue with this fellow. When he got to the actually functionality of the motor and the frame he rated it above the Tesla, which are two of the most important features of the car.
As far as calling the car ugly compared to a Tesla, well that is completely subjective. Some find the 1st Gen Bolt cute, like a little bug. I own the car and I don't really love the look, but I don't like the look of the Tesla either.
Another interesting thing is what he says about wiring, he admits that this is sort of a retrofitted product, sort of. What is happening with GM is they are working on a platform design. So putting different model designs together based on a single platform is going to require a certain amount of reverse engineering for cost efficiency, which may be the reason Chevy was able to make a car that sold for $35k that Tesla has not been able to do, yet said they would.
I like this video, though it is mostly opinion and not much fact.
I watched the Tesla Model 3 teardown by this fellow, he pretty much ripped Tesla on that car as well.
 

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Yeah, what happens when something in a Tesla overloads and there are no fuses? Does the wire loom burn up? Not having a frunk is why the Bolt has all of it's mechanical bits on display and in a location easy to work on... comparable components in a Tesla are hidden in the side panels of the car (between interior wall and exterior wall) where they are a pain in the butt to troubleshoot or repair / replace.

Personal view, the Bolt was fantastic in 2017, and it is still the best value on the market. If you are not into road trips and the size is big enough for you then it is darn near the perfect EV. If you want to road trip the slow DCFC (fastest charging non-tesla on the market in 2017, slowest charging on the market in 2021) it leaves something to be desired compared to its competition.

Keith
Made me wonder just where the fuses are on a Tesla? Are there any? And if so where?
 

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This was not shoehorned into an existing platform. And I don't want an EV that screams that it's an EV. Who cares that it has more wiring than a Tesla?
Why do you say the Bolt wasn’t shoehorned? Very curious. The motor and electrical system is literally designed to fit into a Korean compact cars gasoline engine mounts because GM was making a “compliance car” with the Bolt. Look at the Korean made Chevy Sonic or the Chevy Korean made Spark.
 

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Why do you say the Bolt wasn’t shoehorned? Very curious. The motor and electrical system is literally designed to fit into a Korean compact cars gasoline engine mounts because GM was making a “compliance car” with the Bolt. Look at the Korean made Chevy Sonic or the Chevy Korean made Spark.
No. The Kona and new Ioniq are compliance cars (because I can't buy one where I live).
 

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Suspension components are essentially commodity items like bolts (the fastener kind). There's no need to reinvent and/or redesign them for every new car, you can just pick and adapt the ones that are best suited to the application.
I was just watching the Sandy assessment of the Mustang Mach E front end layout under the frunk... he seems to think using off the shelf parts is a sin worthy of damning a car and it's designer to ****. He was upset that they (gasp in horror) used HOSES with T connectors, Y connectors, and spring hose clamps when designing the cooling system of the Mach E.

He also was upset that the trim around the Frunk wasn't part of the Frunk bucket... he portrayed the Tesla Frunk as a single piece unit with zero other trim around it. I am pretty sure that was just a lie.

Keith
 

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I was just watching the Sandy assessment of the Mustang Mach E front end layout under the frunk... he seems to think using off the shelf parts is a sin worthy of damning a car and it's designer to ****.
Every new part you create requires design time, effort, new contracts with suppliers, validation, new inventory codes and warehousing, etc. etc. etc. I'm sure there's a trade-off at some point where the added benefit of a bespoke part exceeds its incremental cost, but the fact is that for a lot of components it's just not worth it.
 
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