[twriter]

I tried my first DCFC yesterday, the free chargers at Graton Casino in Rohnert Park. And I was dismayed that it took approximately 4 hours to fully charge from about 2/3 depleted.


I pulled up ot one DCFC and was not able to get it to start. So I moved to the other and it started OK. I set my Apple Watch for a 2-hour timer, figuring that should be pretty good, but when the time was up, the chrage level was in the 60%, nowhere close to full.


Looking on the ChargePoint map, I see 2 levels of DCFC, one at 50kW and one at 24kW. It turns out I ended up on the latter. Still, it took 4 hours, maybe a bit more, to add 41.79 kWh. Does that sound about right?

 

[GJETSON]

Still, it took 4 hours, maybe a bit more, to add 41.79 kWh. Does that sound about right?

All chargers taper very hard after 80%. It doesn't matter what it starts at, by the time you get to 80% you may as well be on a 240 volt EVSE.

Starting at 33% SOC, on a 24 kW charger, your Bolt was already tapering.

http://i.imgur.com/Ze9y0RU.png

 

[ga2500ev]

Um dumb question: How can a 24 kW charger charge at 40 kW? Am I missing something on this image?

ga2500ev

 

[ga2500ev]

I tried my first DCFC yesterday, the free chargers at Graton Casino in Rohnert Park. And I was dismayed that it took approximately 4 hours to fully charge from about 2/3 depleted.
...
Looking on the ChargePoint map, I see 2 levels of DCFC, one at 50kW and one at 24kW. It turns out I ended up on the latter. Still, it took 4 hours, maybe a bit more, to add 41.79 kWh. Does that sound about right?

There are several impact factors. First is that many DCFC list the maximum power at impossible voltages. Many higher powered DCFC list a charge for a 500V battery. It's really current that matters, not power in kW.
So for the sake of argument let's say the 24 kW unit will charge a 500V battery. 24000W/500V = 48A. So the actual power for the Bolt, whose battery voltage ranges from about 330V to 390V would actually be
330V*48A = 15.8 kW for example.

Next is taper. In the upper ranges of state of charge (SOC) the current is reduced to protect the battery. It kicks in hard above 80% SOC.

Both are reasons that could affect the speed of charging.

ga2500ev

 

[GJETSON]

Um dumb question: How can a 24 kW charger charge at 40 kW? Am I missing something on this image?

ga2500ev

Sorry. Wrong link.

http://i.imgur.com/Ze9y0RU.png

Thought I had one showing 24 kW charger, but it was for charge curve of a 24 kWh Leaf. :-(

The bottom 60 amp line is for a 500 VDC, 60 amp output 25 kW wall charger, like you find at some Chevy dealers.

 

[twriter]

There are several impact factors. First is that many DCFC list the maximum power at impossible voltages. Many higher powered DCFC list a charge for a 500V battery. It's really current that matters, not power in kW.
So for the sake of argument let's say the 24 kW unit will charge a 500V battery. 24000W/500V = 48A. So the actual power for the Bolt, whose battery voltage ranges from about 330V to 390V would actually be
330V*48A = 15.8 kW for example.

Next is taper. In the upper ranges of state of charge (SOC) the current is reduced to protect the battery. It kicks in hard above 80% SOC.

Both are reasons that could affect the speed of charging.

ga2500ev

Yeah, I knew about the taper. But I although I didn't realize that I was at the lower-rate charger, I still was expecting a quicker ramp-up. I would have thought that in the first 2 hours I would have gotten to (or even past) that 80% point. I mean (and I'm doing this from memory here), in the first 2 hours, it went from about 1/3 fully charged to about 2/3 fully charged, or from just under 20 kWh to 40-ish kWH. From what I understand, I would have expected to get well into taper territory in those first two hours, even on that smaller capacity charger.

 

[GJETSON]

So the actual power for the Bolt, whose battery voltage ranges from about 330V to 390V

Your explanation is much better than mine. Just for the record, I just looked at a few Torque Pro screen shots I have saved. 1.6% DIC was 317.4 volts, and 100.0% DIC was 399.3 volts.

 

[GJETSON]

Probably the most unique 24 kW DC charger location you will ever find.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/185661

https://electrek.co/2019/03/29/harley-davidson-dealers-ev-chargers/

 

[GregBrew]

Probably the most unique 24 kW DC charger location you will ever find.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/185661

https://electrek.co/2019/03/29/harley-davidson-dealers-ev-chargers/

Why? H-D is coming out with their L2 capable electric Livewire motorcycle.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/electric.html

 

[Terry Hancock]

Why? H-D is coming out with their L2 capable electric Livewire motorcycle.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/electric.html

They are going to need a lot of L3 stops, with a highway range less than their claimed 88 miles of mixed range.

I am an old cycle rider, still drive one with a sidecar. I would not consider the HD for anything other than showing off around town, then quickly returning home for a charge. I thought they would put in more battery pack for $30K start price!!! Would not consider an EV bike unless it had even more range than we want for our cars. You are less protected from the elements and need to go far and move on quickly, many times just because of approaching weather.

I do not see a market for an in town only speedster. They can prove me wrong, but probably not at $30K and above.

 

[Cataract2]

They are going to need a lot of L3 stops, with a highway range less than their claimed 88 miles of mixed range.

I am an old cycle rider, still drive one with a sidecar. I would not consider the HD for anything other than showing off around town, then quickly returning home for a charge. I thought they would put in more battery pack for $30K start price!!! Would not consider an EV bike unless it had even more range than we want for our cars. You are less protected from the elements and need to go far and move on quickly, many times just because of approaching weather.

I do not see a market for an in town only speedster. They can prove me wrong, but probably not at $30K and above.

https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/lightning-electric-motorcycle-strike/

Always this. Check out the torque numbers.:nerd:

 

[GregBrew]

https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/lightning-electric-motorcycle-strike/

Always this. Check out the torque numbers.:nerd:

I've been looking at their LS-218 for years, but the ~$40k entry price is a bit off-putting.


$13k for it's little brother is sure tempting...

 

[Cataract2]

I've been looking at their LS-218 for years, but the ~$40k entry price is a bit off-putting.


$13k for it's little brother is sure tempting...

I've move from sport bikes to Adventure bikes myself. So I wouldn't get that one, now put out an ADV style bike with a 200+ miles range and we'll be talking. Has to have L3 charging and active battery cooling/heating. Still, I would love to take that Lightning for a spin. The torque would leave a huge smile on my face.

 

[calmarkmcdougal]

Why? H-D is coming out with their L2 capable electric Livewire motorcycle.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/electric.html

Wow...
I want one....
{shhhh don't tell my wife...}

 

[GJETSON]

Why? H-D is coming out with their L2 capable electric Livewire motorcycle.

Yes, as featured in my second link. It will be very interesting to see if even one other HD dealer installs a charger. Zero, which is the most successful electric motorcycle company to date, sells in the hundreds. I expect the Livewire to sell fewer than the number of fingers on one hand. This may be the only sentence ever to contain the words: young, hip, techie, and Harley.

The Lightning Strike, if it ever materializes, could be my choice for death with dignity.

 

[Cataract2]

The Lightning Strike, if it ever materializes, could be my choice for death with dignity.

Or at least a huge grin and lot's of giggling every time you twist the throttle.

 

[GJETSON]

Or at least a huge grin and lot's of giggling every time you twist the throttle.

No. I quit riding motorcycles in my twenties, because I enjoy speed too much, and kept crashing. My reflexes have only gotten worst since then, so a fast electric motorcycle would definitely be my exit.

 

[Cataract2]

No. I quit riding motorcycles in my twenties, because I enjoy speed too much, and kept crashing. My reflexes have only gotten worst since then, so a fast electric motorcycle would definitely be my exit.

No worries. Everyone has to know their limit and at least you found yours and decided not to cross it.

 

[GregBrew]

No worries. Everyone has to know their limit and at least you found yours and decided not to cross it.

Yup. When I got my first motorcycle at 40(!), I was required by the wife to first take the RiderCourse motorcycle safety course, before I got my "M1" add-on. Great course, BTW. It's the one that CHP motorcycle officers must take. They then take an additional, more advanced one, though. Students in my class ranged from never-been-on-a-bike-before, to been-riding-for-twenty-years-in-another-state. I fell somewhere in-between, having ridden friend's bikes a handful of times in my youth. The course was held in the parking lot of a local community college. Half time in the classroom, half in the saddle.

It was hilarious to see a couple of big dudes pull up on their swept Harleys with super-long forks (that they should not have been riding). One benefit of the RiderCourse is that successful completion allows one to skip the DMV riding test, and only take the written test. The Harley riders had zero chance of passing the CA DMV riding test on their own bikes, as they were almost longer than the cone spacing on the DMV riding test. RiderCourse provides the bikes...175cc enduro-style, for everything, including testing. Small, light, and easy to throw around. You get to lay your bike down once. After that, you're done. Of the nineteen that started the course, eight of us passed. That's a common pass rate.

A good friend of my wife's (who recommended the RiderCourse) said that there are two kinds of bikers: Those that have lain their bike down in traffic, and those that soon will. She was right...

 

[Cataract2]

Yup. When I got my first motorcycle at 40(!), I was required by the wife to first take the RiderCourse motorcycle safety course, before I got my "M1" add-on. Great course, BTW. It's the one that CHP motorcycle officers must take. They then take an additional, more advanced one, though. Students in my class ranged from never-been-on-a-bike-before, to been-riding-for-twenty-years-in-another-state. I fell somewhere in-between, having ridden friend's bikes a handful of times in my youth. The course was held in the parking lot of a local community college. Half time in the classroom, half in the saddle.

It was hilarious to see a couple of big dudes pull up on their swept Harleys with super-long forks (that they should not have been riding). One benefit of the RiderCourse is that successful completion allows one to skip the DMV riding test, and only take the written test. The Harley riders had zero chance of passing the CA DMV riding test on their own bikes, as they were almost longer than the cone spacing on the DMV riding test. RiderCourse provides the bikes...175cc enduro-style, for everything, including testing. Small, light, and easy to throw around. You get to lay your bike down once. After that, you're done. Of the nineteen that started the course, eight of us passed. That's a common pass rate.

A good friend of my wife's (who recommended the RiderCourse) said that there are two kinds of bikers: Those that have lain their bike down in traffic, and those that soon will. She was right...

Done both the MSF Course and Experienced Rider course. Add on I also did RawHyde Adventures off road riding course. Been around a bit. Can certainly recommend and would recommend all to anyone showing interest.