[SpicyBolt]

My OTD above is what it would cost anyone to drive it away, taxes, title, fees, additional dealer profit or discount from MSRP.

Separately should be mentioned is the negotiable add-ons; whether the customer was suckered for the additional $3,800 warranty, Scotchguard, crystal finish protection, floor mats, wheel locks, nitrogen fill, et al.

The federal income tax credit is an individual thing and IMHO should not be included in the OTD, but definitely should be mentioned as to whether it is still applicable to the vehicle under discussion.

Much debated here is how the OTD should reflect individual discounts not available to everyone; i.e. brother-in-law owns the dealership, GM card points, loyalty discount, conquest discount, Costco discount, state and utility rebates.

Bottom line - full disclosure is better than just tossing out a number without context.

jack vines

I agree with you generally, with the exception of the $7500 tax credit. I have no problem though if members fully disclose the nature of all discounts.

When people on this forum "brag" about paying $15k under MSRP, it's important to note that most early buyers like yourself, paid $7500 under MSRP, after the tax credit. No way would later buyers have received a $15k discount if the $7500 tax credit was still available either.

So if you aren't going to disclose that you received the $7500 tax credit, then to make a fair comparison, those buyers paying $15k under MSRP, shouldn't disclose the $7500 received in lieu of the tax credit. They should say, myself included that they paid $7500 under MSRP rather than $15k under.

 

[MichBolt]

Apparently @Packard V8 wasn't the only one having problems with Kia dealers and the EV6:

https://jalopnik.com/kia-dealers-are-going-to-kill-the-ev6-1848577923

 

[Packard V8]

As I mentioned earlier, not everyone who bought the Bolt during the span the $7500 federal income tax credit was available were able to take advantage of it. That means it was a maybe, not a given reduction in OTD.

jack vines

 

[SpicyBolt]

As I mentioned earlier, not everyone who bought the Bolt during the span the $7500 federal income tax credit was available were able to take advantage of it. That means it was a maybe, not a given reduction in OTD.

jack vines

My point is, you often say you paid MSRP for your Bolt, which you said is $45k. And you talk about how it was well worth it in terms of opportunity cost. You've had all these years to enjoy your Bolt. And I agree with you. In order to fully appreciate what you mean, it would be helpful to know what you, jack, actually paid for your 2017 Bolt, net of all applicable tax credits, and incentives, federal and state.

So I paid $15k under MSRP, after $13k in unconditional discounts, and $1500 in loyalty and $500 for taking out a GM loan which I paid off right away.

That's what I paid, nothing hidden, no maybes. And I'm not bragging either. It's what the car was worth, especially since the $7500 tax credit was no longer available, and considering the EV competition in 2021. And we have no state incentives in Minnesota either.

I like full disclosure. It gives a more realistic idea of what an early adopter like you actually paid vs those of us who bought Bolts more recently. In most cases, I don't think the difference is as great as one might think from reading your posts.

 

[Colt Hero]

I like full disclosure. It gives a more realistic idea of what an early adopter like you actually paid vs those of us who bought Bolts more recently. In most cases, I don't think the difference is as great as one might think from reading your posts.

I've always been under the impression that the "early Bolt buyers" paid about $10,000 more than those who bought during the "fire sale" of the 2020 and 2021 model years. I mean ... I almost bought a 2020, and then a 2021 Bolt LT that would've only cost me ~$18k out-the-door (OTD).

$40k MSRP (Bolt LT with 3 pkgs)
-$8k GM Rebate
-$7k Dealer Discount (Donohoo Chevy, AL)
-$3k Costco Discount
----------------------------
$22k Sub-Total
----------------------------
-$4200 GM Card "Points"
+$200 Dealer "Fee"
----------------------------
$18,000 out-the-door

 

[SpicyBolt]

I've always been under the impression that the "early Bolt buyers" paid about $10,000 more than those who bought during the "fire sale" of the 2020 and 2021 model years.

That sounds about right, on average. Although in my case, the $15k off MSRP, was only $7500 less than an early buyer receiving the full $7500 tax credit. And the unconditional discounts were only $5500 less. And if the early buyer lives in a state with incentives, the difference shrinks even further, to as low as $3000, or even less in a few states.

It just wasn't the norm that early Bolt buyers paid MSRP, full stop. And yet a few would like to give that impression for some reason. Of course a few did, but most got at least part of the $7500 tax credit. I mean how does one afford a $45k automobile, and yet not have enough taxable income for even one dollar's worth of the tax credit? And in some states, they also received additional incentives.

I bought a new Volt in 2017, and can tell you that if not for the $7500 tax credit, that purchase would never have taken place. And I always told people the purchase price net the tax credit. I described the credit too, if they were unaware.

 

[Packard V8]

In several past posts, I mentioned we did receive the $7500 federal income tax credit; no secret there. Since we are retired and have little taxable income, it required taking a substantial distribution from an IRA to generate the tax liability.

I had to go back five years in the files to find the MSRP was $43,155 and in early 2017 we paid $41,819, including state sales tax, license, document fees, et al, OTD. A year later, after claiming the $7,500 federal income tax credit, the net was reduced to $34,319.

Shortly after, an equally old woman friend bought a similar Bolt, but for whatever reason, couldn't or wouldn't take the tax credit. Her OTD and also her net was $45,xxx.

jack vines

 

[SpicyBolt]

In several past posts, I mentioned we did receive the $7500 federal income tax credit; no secret there. Since we are retired and have little taxable income, it required taking a substantial distribution from an IRA to generate the tax liability.

I had to go back five years in the files to find the MSRP was $43,155 and in early 2017 we paid $41,819, including state sales tax, license, document fees, et al, OTD. A year later, after claiming the $7,500 federal income tax credit, the net was reduced to $34,319.

Shortly after, an equally old woman friend bought a similar Bolt, but for whatever reason, couldn't or wouldn't take the tax credit. Her OTD and also her net was $45,xxx.

jack vines

Thanks. I understand the retirement part too. My wife was still working when we bought our Volt in 2017. Now with both of us retired, it would have required some juggling. I probably would have done a Roth conversion to generate the taxable income, had we bought a tax credit eligible EV.

I haven't been around this forum very long, as I was residing on the Volt Forum until that car met it's demise last April. So I may have missed your posts, re: receiving the tax credit.

Bottom line, you've enjoyed your Bolt for several years now, so the extra purchase price has been well worth it, as you've stated. We enjoyed our Volt, but like our Bolt even better.

Some range anxiety plus price prompted us to get a Volt the first time around. With a negotiated discount, plus the $7500, we were able to get a loaded 2018 Premier ($40k MSRP) for just under $30k OTD, including ttl. The insurance check for the totaled Volt, plus about $5500 put us into our Bolt OTD, including ttl.

 

[Fivedoor]

Local dealerships exist because the majority of car buyers want to go out on a Saturday afternoon, take a 15-minute test drive and drive it home that night.

I mentioned to a potential EV buyer that he could shop the internet, buy from Ft Payne, AL, have it shipped 2274 miles to Spokane. His answer, "You really are a car nut. Sane people wouldn't ever consider that."

jack vines

My view is like I assume yours to be... Sane people would never consider paying thousands of dollars more for a car so I can get it today instead of a week (or even a month) from now.

It always confuses me when people say that bargaining for a car to get the best price doesn't work. I have never paid over MSRP for a car, and usually have paid thousands less than MSRP on new cars I have purchased. I hate (for the most part) fixed prices. Now, if I can find the car I want at a dealership 1000+ miles away at the price I want rather than having to spend a full day (or more) of time and effort to negotiate the same deal at a nearby dealership, I will skip the extra effort and purchase from the distant dealership with the "good" fixed price.

Keith

 

[MichBolt]

W. Virginia house considering bill to outlaw OTA updates, requiring such updates to be performed by a dealership:

US State Wants To Ban Over-The-Air Vehicle Updates

Dealer franchise laws in the United States prevent manufacturers from selling directly to customers in most states. This means car shoppers are forced to buy new cars via authorized dealers. These laws were written to protect local businesses and consumers, but as we've seen recently from insane...

carbuzz.com

 

[Jerry Duke]

So much for politicians "answerable to the people".
More like "SHOW ME THE MONEY".

 

[MisterJJ]

We need laws to protect the people from dealerships... and politicians.

 

[Jerry Duke]

You can forget the politicians, they make the laws.
But dealerships are something else. Enough voters speak out and visit a politicians local office will get their attention.

 

[MichBolt]

We need laws to protect the people from dealerships... and politicians.

California has a frequently used voter initiative system, but I'm not sure that has led to better results than laws enacted by politicians.

 

[umbarger33]

There were several reports on reddit just today that it's pretty common for dealers initially ask for markups and eventually settling for MSRP. For example here someone mentioned dealer went from 10K markup to MSRP:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KiaEV6/comments/ssw1pe I think it was common having 5-10K markup on Ioniq5/EV6 but those are rapidly seems to be shrinking. It seems the shortage slightly easing up but dealers are still trying to pull a fast one.

There were several reports on reddit just today that it's pretty common for dealers initially ask for markups and eventually settling for MSRP. For example here someone mentioned dealer went from 10K markup to MSRP:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KiaEV6/comments/ssw1pe I think it was common having 5-10K markup on Ioniq5/EV6 but those are rapidly seems to be shrinking. It seems the shortage slightly easing up but dealers are still trying to pull a fast one.

I just bought a new bolt EUV for sticker Price had one with Sun Roof I didn't want it at Ray Chevrolet In Fox Lake , Illinois dealer 10 miles away was $500.00 over.
Jim

 

[Basil Davis]

I saw a couple EV6's on the journey to Taos (story to be posted soonish). I liked them more before I saw the running lights make it look like some sort of demonic insect. Not a vibe I would enjoy. That being said it seems like one of the better EV options out there even though the range is not great.

 

[20Bolt865]

This makes me furious (well, not really) but how freakin' ridiculous this is that they have the balls to ask $10K more on top of the MRSP when they are still getting these cars at wholesale price. Gouging much?

I just got a 2020 bolt premier that just had battery recall... 11,200 miles at pur hase for $26k