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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wow, looks like the price is right and AZ is going all in. I remember articles of AZ utilities fighting rooftop solar, looks like they rather be the one to provide the power vs generated on site. Who would have thought?

BTW, so much for the largest coal plant in the west. RIP coal plant. Although, I am sure it's replaced by natural gas plants, which will be the next victim of lower solar+battery. :)

 

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So they are replacing a coal plant with solar that will total 37% of the output of the plant that is closing? There's a ton of info missing from that article, and it was purposely ommitted.

I'll get excited when renewables can merely keep up with the growth in electricity demand.

It will happen, just not in short time frames that we like to think in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Article says coal plant was shut down last week but the mass solar+battery will not be until 2021. So, my guess is that the coal plant was replaced by natural gas + solar farms. Then, probably older natural gas plants should get retired as more solar+battery comes online.
 

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Well, solar energy is one of the most perspective, no doubt about it. And there is not so many chargers which you can say for sure that they are the best electric fence chargers. And looking for a great one, I've been looking for the solar That's why what I've been considering is solar panels, which could allow a charger to be "green" a little bit. Also, for me it should work in all-weather condition.
 

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My Texas solar panel installation is on the way. Economical or not, it seems like the most prudent thing to do. For me, it will be me like a 15-20 year payoff, because electricity rates are so low here and net-metering is not really all that conducive here (not mandated, and just a few companies offer plans).
Even though I have been purchasing on a renewable-only plan, I know my actual electricity is coming form from the nearby coal plan (granted one with CO2 scrubbers).
For what it is worth, mine is the 7th in our neighborhood this year. Still a small percentage, but making progress.
 

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Yeah, I have family in Texas and they said their energy is < 10c/kWh and they have times of free energy too. In CA, we can be over 50c/kWh I think at summer/peak times. It's pretty bad with all our fires, they will probably keep raising rates regularly as well as shut off our power and people with means are going to use batteries to just never use a KW of their power.
 

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...
Even though I have been purchasing on a renewable-only plan, I know my actual electricity is coming form from the nearby coal plan (granted one with CO2 scrubbers).
...
What is the premium you must pay for your renewable-only plan? A number of years ago I went with 50% wind power from my local utility. I had to pay more. I'm still trying to figure out why everyone says wind and solar is so much cheaper but I have to pay more to get it.
 

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What is the premium you must pay for your renewable-only plan? A number of years ago I went with 50% wind power from my local utility. I had to pay more. I'm still trying to figure out why everyone says wind and solar is so much cheaper but I have to pay more to get it.
Precisely the argument I keep making. If renewable energy were cheaper, my utility would invite me to pay less for it. Even if renewable electricity can be generated more cheaply than conventional means it needs to do so when it's needed, otherwise the cost of storage or overproduction must also be factored in. For most locations; we're not there yet.
 

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Precisely the argument I keep making. If renewable energy were cheaper, my utility would invite me to pay less for it. Even if renewable electricity can be generated more cheaply than conventional means it needs to do so when it's needed, otherwise the cost of storage or overproduction must also be factored in. For most locations; we're not there yet.
Renewable energy is cheaper IF you build a brand new solar farm instead of a brand new coal plant. You are paying more to build the infrastructure and start to phase out the older power plants. Battery storage is the next phase and it already is being implemented because of cost. A city in Alaska just contracted a battery system to be used for power surges. Lots of other US utilities are following this model as well.
 

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Wow, looks like the price is right and AZ is going all in. I remember articles of AZ utilities fighting rooftop solar, looks like they rather be the one to provide the power vs generated on site. Who would have thought?

BTW, so much for the largest coal plant in the west. RIP coal plant. Although, I am sure it's replaced by natural gas plants, which will be the next victim of lower solar+battery. :)

The Arizona plant was closed because it was more expensive to generate power from it than gas and nuclear. Our power company was one of the owners. The plant was on the Navajo reservation and even had a dedicated coal mine with an electric train to deliver the coal. Still it was no longer cost effective. There were a number of attempts to find a buyer as the shut down was very detrimental to the economy of the Navajo reservation. The Navajos are now looking at solar and clean energy to help the economy.
 

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I don't think that there are any commercial CO2 scrubbers yet in service. SO2 scrubbers have been around for quite a while. If efficient CO2 scrubbers ever become economically viable, coal could make a comeback!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I don't think that there are any commercial CO2 scrubbers yet in service. SO2 scrubbers have been around for quite a while. If efficient CO2 scrubbers ever become economically viable, coal could make a comeback!
Trees? And dead trees can become coal! Wow, so coal is renewable? :0
 

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I don't think that there are any commercial CO2 scrubbers yet in service. SO2 scrubbers have been around for quite a while. If efficient CO2 scrubbers ever become economically viable, coal could make a comeback!
The only coal fired power plant that used CO2 sequestration was actually a gasification plant in Mississippi. We made cheap crap lignite coal into synthetic gas that was stripped of CO2 (and all other pollutants) and then burned in combustion turbines to make Electricity . The majority of the synthetic gas after pollutant removal is H2 gas, resulting in water vapor being our main effluent from the combustion turbine stack. The Sulfur compounds were converted into sulfuric acid for use in industry, Ammonia compounds were converted into anhydrous ammonia for use in chemical industry and fertilizers (or making meth LOL) The CO2 was compressed and sent down a pipeline to oil fields for enhanced oil recovery where the CO2 is injected into old oil wells to force out oil, and the CO2 is left behind in the rock formations.

We were shut down by the local government after construction phase was complete, and we were almost complete with the commissioning phase of the plant. They blamed cost over runs on construction and commissioning as the reason for shutting the project down (it did cost more than triple projected cost) The big boon to the local economy is construction... after commissioning is when a plant can recover construction costs from the rate payers. Draw your own conclusions on the timing of pulling the plug on the project.

In my opinion the project was probably mismanaged, resulting in much of the extra cost... but the system worked and would have been very environmentally friendly if they had allowed us to continue operations.

Keith <---- not bitter at all!

PS: This was in the previous political administration, anything Coal was evil no matter how low the pollution output, this may or may not have been a factor... I just don't want someone saying it was shut down by the current administration in a plot to burn us all alive with CO2 or some conspiracy theory crap.
 
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