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Love's and the other big chains like TA are relatively clean and safe on the highways around me.
Matter of fact, I'm sitting here at breakfast drinking my coffee in a coffee shop that's inside a truck maintenance/repair center across the street from a TA truck stop. I'll be here for hours while I pay my bills and check out the forum.
When my kids were young and it was boys night out, the TA truck stop is where we would go. They have a restaurant along with a Burger King, Pizza Hut express, and a Taco Bell. Then they have an arcade room that we would spend hours playing.
I can see L2 having a place for the locals. I can imagine someone that doesn't have a house and access to charging, could do their charging at a place like this. I think we need local access to L2 when electric cars go mainstream. Many people can't charge at "home". The people that need electric cars the most are the ones that don't have access to charging at home. Although, the technology might leapfrog the need where car sharing becomes a thing and most people won't own a car because its cheaper not to.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
It gets even more ridiculous,"And on EV forums far and wide, folks keep calling for the installation of more useless public L2 EVSEs". Yeah,they majority of us are wrong, of course. Anyone who calls ANY L2 EVSE "useless" has no business posting on any EV forum.
 

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Let's just agree to disagree then. I've clearly defined where L2 is useful. But many L2 installations are like putting them in interstate rest areas: it's a form of access with virtually no utility. Other than calling it ridiculous, you still haven't explained how L2 is useful in places where people are going to spend less than an hour. And you still haven't explained why putting a faster charging option in the same spot is also ridiculous.

L2 at an interstate truck stop is ridiculous. That's exactly the point.

ga2500ev
 

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I charge up wherever i go if they have L2 for free. Pays for my drive to Publix and the mall while i'm shopping or watching a movie. What's the big deal? I appreciate they have L2's and are supporting EV's, so i choose to shop there instead of other stores. It's also PR, the more people start seeing them around, the more they will start looking into EV's maybe.

Build the future. It takes all kinds. Stop being "ridiculous"; anyone interested in this post has already read your perspective several times now. Stop pissing all over the thread please.
 

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Unlike many of you here, I actually own and drive daily an L2 only EV with short range. An EV where a public L2 recharge is a required event, not just a convenient opportunity. The lack of flexibility is tragic. And on EV forums far and wide, folks keep calling for the installation of more useless public L2 EVSEs.
I'm in the same boat as you. I only have the Bolt, not any other EV so I'm short range L2 only. I'd rather stab myself in the head repeatedly with a fork than DCFC charge a Bolt while lying to myself that I really would have driven that slow, with no heat or less A/C and truly stopped as long at all the restaurants on the way. I'm not old and retired so I'm going to change my tune on this when I become a gripper.
 

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I charge up wherever i go if they have L2 for free. Pays for my drive to Publix and the mall while i'm shopping or watching a movie. What's the big deal? I appreciate they have L2's and are supporting EV's, so i choose to shop there instead of other stores. It's also PR, the more people start seeing them around, the more they will start looking into EV's maybe.

Build the future. It takes all kinds. Stop being "ridiculous"; anyone interested in this post has already read your perspective several times now. Stop pissing all over the thread please.
Jesus dude, relax. It's a discussion. Try not to get so butt-hurt.
 

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I charge up wherever i go if they have L2 for free. Pays for my drive to Publix and the mall while i'm shopping or watching a movie. What's the big deal? I appreciate they have L2's and are supporting EV's, so i choose to shop there instead of other stores. It's also PR, the more people start seeing them around, the more they will start looking into EV's maybe.

Build the future. It takes all kinds. Stop being "ridiculous"; anyone interested in this post has already read your perspective several times now. Stop pissing all over the thread please.
I keep posting because I don't understand why folks think that it's better to settle for slow L2 charging in public places when there are faster options available. I get that L2 is better than nothing. I even get grabbing an L2 opportunity charge if it's cheap or free. But it just baffles me when folks tell me "Well L2 is good enough. We don't need anything faster."

I mean we live in an EV world where if you cannot charge at 250 kW, then your car is too slow. I just came away from a discussion on InsideEVs with folks calling Bolts useless because they can only charge at 55 kW. So color me confused when suggesting a faster option that doesn't cost much more than L2 continues to be rejected. And seemingly without explanation.

And again the big deal is that the public charging infrastructure needs to be built for follks coming down the pike. Specifically early majority apartment and condo dwellers. People who will not have regular home charging access. So while of course it's convenient to grab a free charge while shopping or watching a movie when it's trivial to plug in at home, it's a completely unreasonable expectation that someone who doesn't have other regular charging access to do this regularly even if the electricity is free.

We probably should all try it for a month. Don't charge at home and only use the public charging infrastructure. That will open some eyes to the real problem.

ga2500ev
 

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We probably should all try it for a month. Don't charge at home and only use the public charging infrastructure. That will open some eyes to the real problem.

ga2500ev
Done that, not too bad if your commute is 40 miles and you sit in your car for 90 min either napping, reading news, or watch youtube - something that you would be doing at home anyway. Charging at home, of course, is still the most convenient and less risk of catching the flu. And DCFC is definitely better than L2.
 

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I'm in the same boat as you. I only have the Bolt, not any other EV so I'm short range L2 only. I'd rather stab myself in the head repeatedly with a fork than DCFC charge a Bolt while lying to myself that I really would have driven that slow, with no heat or less A/C and truly stopped as long at all the restaurants on the way. I'm not old and retired so I'm going to change my tune on this when I become a gripper.
Well Zoom that's sort of a different discussion that really points back to the original article. The Bolt is clearly a compromise when it comes to longer range travel. It really comes down to when taking a road trip, how do you feel about spending an hour in a Love's or a Flying J or in a rural Walmart? I remember you made your feelings on the subject clear early on. Most of us would be willing to spend that hour every once in a while. Anyone who does long distance travel on the regular probably should look elsewhere from the Bolt as the time will rack up.

BTW Zoom by short range I mean my Fiat gets 60 miles on winter days. And yes that's with no heat and driving slow. Your Bolt would be a dream in my world.

But as to medium speed DCFC, all of us with home charging available could benefit from faster, more flexible charging options. And those coming along that will not have home charging on the regular would really need faster available options that will not break their bank, even if they need to spend 45 minutes to an hour once a week to get enough charge to get around.

ga2500ev
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I'm in the same boat as you. I only have the Bolt, not any other EV so I'm short range L2 only. I'd rather stab myself in the head repeatedly with a fork than DCFC charge a Bolt while lying to myself that I really would have driven that slow, with no heat or less A/C and truly stopped as long at all the restaurants on the way. I'm not old and retired so I'm going to change my tune on this when I become a gripper.
Age has nothing to do with it, period. And funny your neighborhood uses the term "gripper".
 

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There are only about 4 or 5 places where L2 is actually appropriate: home, work, airports, amusement parks, park and rides, and some apartment complex parking spots. But in virtually every other spot, and even in the above places, medium speed DCFC can complement public charging better than L2.

ga2500ev
Many of the people who park at airports will be gone for 48 hours or more, so even level 2 is more than they need. The electrical capacity required for a single 6 kW level 2 could support four outlets for level 1, so a bunch of level 1 spots with a few level 2 for the day trippers might be a better approach there. I'd also include hotels as appropriate places for level 2. People go there to spend the night, so charging your car overnight just like you do at home makes a lot of sense. A few medium speed DCFC spots might be a useful addition for people who arrive with nearly dead cars and want to go out right away, but having a place to plug my car in overnight so I can leave with a full charge in the morning would be a higher priority for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Many of the people who park at airports will be gone for 48 hours or more, so even level 2 is more than they need. The electrical capacity required for a single 6 kW level 2 could support four outlets for level 1, so a bunch of level 1 spots with a few level 2 for the day trippers might be a better approach there. I'd also include hotels as appropriate places for level 2. People go there to spend the night, so charging your car overnight just like you do at home makes a lot of sense. A few medium speed DCFC spots might be a useful addition for people who arrive with nearly dead cars and want to go out right away, but having a place to plug my car in overnight so I can leave with a full charge in the morning would be a higher priority for me.
Be prepared for the 4th near identical reply because he,"doesn't understand".
 

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Many of the people who park at airports will be gone for 48 hours or more, so even level 2 is more than they need. The electrical capacity required for a single 6 kW level 2 could support four outlets for level 1, so a bunch of level 1 spots with a few level 2 for the day trippers might be a better approach there. I'd also include hotels as appropriate places for level 2. People go there to spend the night, so charging your car overnight just like you do at home makes a lot of sense. A few medium speed DCFC spots might be a useful addition for people who arrive with nearly dead cars and want to go out right away, but having a place to plug my car in overnight so I can leave with a full charge in the morning would be a higher priority for me.
Looks like I have a convert. L1/L2 is fine for these spots and medium speed DCFC should be mixed in too. The point is giving folks options so that they can match the charger they need to the situation they are in. L1/L2 doesn't cover all those situations.

ga2500ev
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I understand just fine. Thanks sir. My feeling is that you don't understand that I'm advocating for adding more options to L1/L2 instead of just settling. Titanium gets that. Do you?

ga2500ev
It is terrible when words you use come back to haunt you, isn't it? "I keep posting because I don't understand why folks". See post #27 and others. No,you said basically that L2 chargers are a waste in so many words. But please, repeat yourself for a 5th time. "But it just baffles me when folks tell me "Well L2 is good enough. We don't need anything faster.". Continue to be baffled. Just admit you're not satisfied with L2 options and move along.
 

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It is terrible when words you use come back to haunt you, isn't it? "I keep posting because I don't understand why folks". See post #27 and others. No,you said basically that L2 chargers are a waste in so many words. But please, repeat yourself for a 5th time. "But it just baffles me when folks tell me "Well L2 is good enough. We don't need anything faster.". Continue to be baffled. Just admit you're not satisfied with L2 options and move along.
I keep asking because you never answer the question. It's a conversation that's along the lines of "We could use more options." "We don't need any more options." "Well why not have more options for more flexibility?" "Because we don't need any more options, so you should just be quiet."

It's unproductive. We've already agreed to disagree. I was having a conversation with Titanium, a good one BTW, and you felt the need to interject for the third time. It's clear that you've decided not to answer my questions. So there's really no reason to continue the discussion.

ga250ev
 

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I for one am mostly enjoying the discussion here. Lots of thoughtful insights. Although I wish this forum had a "block" button like some others to improve the signal-to-noise ratio.

I came from a 2012 Leaf. By the time I traded it for a Bolt, it was down to 60 miles in the summer, and about 35 miles in the winter. No DCFC port on the car, just a measly 3.3kW on-board charger. I've made do with waiting for L2 charging, but it is terrible when you have to wait more than an hour.

Also, comments like "we can just sleep in the car" make me wonder how many people here have a family. I cannot imagine making my wife and kids "sleep in the car" at an L2 just to make it to the next charger. I can, however, imagine taking them out of the car at a truck stop (very safe places in my experience) and feeding them a meal while the car happily DC charges.

The L2 chargers that Syracuse installed back in 2012/2013 now are mostly broken and are very rarely used. You simply don't see people staying at a location for long enough to get meaningful charge out of them. I can definitely see how a handful of 20-25kW DC chargers would be much more useful than an entire row of 6-7kW L2s.
 

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Many of the people who park at airports will be gone for 48 hours or more, so even level 2 is more than they need. The electrical capacity required for a single 6 kW level 2 could support four outlets for level 1, so a bunch of level 1 spots with a few level 2 for the day trippers might be a better approach there. I'd also include hotels as appropriate places for level 2. People go there to spend the night, so charging your car overnight just like you do at home makes a lot of sense. A few medium speed DCFC spots might be a useful addition for people who arrive with nearly dead cars and want to go out right away, but having a place to plug my car in overnight so I can leave with a full charge in the morning would be a higher priority for me.
So true, a 240V 10A plug would work great. At 240V 10A, that's 2.4 kW per hour. X 24 hr and that's 57.6 kWh... so it's round that down to 50 kWh. I'd say that's a full tank.

Not sure if it would be even better if those are switched off during peak period and only charge during off peak. For Cali, that would be midnight to 3PM... 15 hr a day. at 2.4 kW, that's 36 kWh... round down to 30 kWh, that's 50% per day... 2 days will get you from 0% to 100%!
 

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I continue to point out that even there the backup should be lower speed DCFC. It really can be installed anywhere L2 can and can offer charging speeds 4-8 times faster than L2 depending on the top charging rate.

There are only about 4 or 5 places where L2 is actually appropriate: home, work, airports, amusement parks, park and rides, and some apartment complex parking spots. But in virtually every other spot, and even in the above places, medium speed DCFC can complement public charging better than L2.

ga2500ev
I agree with most of your list, but include hotels. They need to have "good" L2 (6 KW or better) or "slow" DCFC (10 KW). I would prefer to be able to plug in at a hotel and leave my car at the charger over night. If it was 25 KW or more DCFC I would feel compelled to come down from my room and move my car after a couple hours... not something I want to do when resting on a road trip.

Keith
 
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