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Certainly. But more capacity = more cost. Who is going to be paying for that?
You really don't need 'new capacity', just mandate rooftop solar on new builds. The cost would be less than retrofitting afterwards and is rolled into your mortgage. Since power is produced in the city, there is no 'grid cost' or grid addition. As long as we have favorable terms for people to plug in during the day at work (or at home for WTF folks) and leave work with full tank. Then, with V2G, power their home for the night.
 

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You really don't need 'new capacity', just mandate rooftop solar on new builds. The cost would be less than retrofitting afterwards and is rolled into your mortgage. Since power is produced in the city, there is no 'grid cost' or grid addition. As long as we have favorable terms for people to plug in during the day at work (or at home for WTF folks) and leave work with full tank. Then, with V2G, power their home for the night.
Yeah, OK. I didn't think of that possibility. People somehow generating their own energy to reduce infrastructure cost on the utility.

I honestly don't know what to expect. I think it will be a modest increase, but nothing like gasoline prices today!
 

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It's a counterexample to what you wrote. So... no, I'm not making your point.
You took a sentence I wrote out of context and made a strawman out of it. In fact, you cut out the preceding sentence "They [renewables] have applications where they are the best solution, and in other use cases they aren't."

You showed an example of where renewables might be the best solution, so how is that a counter example to what I said in the full context?

I'm confused as to what you argument actually is.
 

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You took a sentence I wrote out of context and made a strawman out of it. In fact, you cut out the preceding sentence "They [renewables] have applications where they are the best solution, and in other use cases they aren't."

You showed an example of where renewables might be the best solution, so how is that a counter example to what I said in the full context?

I'm confused as to what you argument actually is.
Yeah, you know... because VERMONT, of all places, is a vast spacious desert where solar and wind are the "best solution" and makes a ton of sense.
 

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Yeah, OK. I didn't think of that possibility. People somehow generating their own energy to reduce infrastructure cost on the utility.

I honestly don't know what to expect. I think it will be a modest increase, but nothing like gasoline prices today!
Residential solar doesn't decrease utility expense, but increases it. The "fuel" isn't the main cost of constantly providing exactly the amount of electricity consumers demand every fraction of a second.

The only realistic way utilities would fail to expand generation capacity to meet demand is misregulation and government interference. Utility costs would only go up if there were continued impediments to energy production, or regulations that force a particular type of energy production.

Yeah, you know... because VERMONT, of all places, is a vast spacious desert where solar and wind are the "best solution" and makes a ton of sense.
More confused than ever on what you're implying, as I made no mention of deserts... you seem to be saying renewables were a bad decision for Vermont.

Vermont's in-state electricity net generation has come almost entirely from renewable resources since the permanent shutdown of the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Station at the end of 2014.21,22 Prior to its shutdown, Vermont Yankee alone accounted for nearly half of the state's generating capacity and contributed more than three-fourths of the state's net generation.23,24 Today, the state's electric utilities own little generating capacity and do not generate enough electricity to meet demand.25 Vermont relies primarily on imports from Canada and in-state independent power producers for electricity.26,27,28 The largest share of Vermont's electricity supply comes from hydroelectric power, most of it generated in Canada.29

More than half of Vermont's electricity supply comes from out of state.
U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis

Here's the answer to why Vermont pays so much for electricity. They shut down their own production and then started importing.
 

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Residential solar doesn't decrease utility expense, but increases it
Depends where you live. That's certainly the case for my state. I bet it's cheaper in places like California where utility rates are far higher.

But we're talking more like future load on the grid. If everyone has solar panels on their house, maybe that will reduce infrastructure expansion and keep utility rates low. And if everyone has solar panels on their house, that probably means solar panels are mass produced and cheaper.
 

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More confused than ever on what you're implying, as I made no mention of deserts... you seem to be saying renewables were a bad decision for Vermont.
Markets don't necessarily need to pick "best application" sources of energy and can be 100% renewable. You seem to think the opposite.

Yes, Vermont pays a premium for the privilege to have entirely CO2-free electricity. I don't know their policy intentions, but I'm guessing that's the entire point!
 

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Charging an EV every day will damage it: 3 Reasons to Stop Charging Your EV Every Night
That seems contrary to the conventional wisdom that greater depth of discharge is worse for battery degradation.

I could see a problem with keeping the battery at a high state of charge on average. So if you only use 10% of the battery and charge to 100% every day, that would result in the battery remaining at an average SOC around 95%, which is bad for battery health.

On the other hand, if you set your target charge level to 55%, use 10% and recharge every day, then your average SOC would be around 50%, which is good for battery health.
 

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Markets don't necessarily need to pick "best application" sources of energy and can be 100% renewable. You seem to think the opposite.

Yes, Vermont pays a premium for the privilege to have entirely CO2-free electricity. I don't know their policy intentions, but I'm guessing that's the entire point!
That is an important distinction. Markets may not need to specify best application, but locations do. A location can't build a hydro plant if there's no water at elevation.

You're still ignoring the fact that I'm speaking in global terms, and globally we couldn't do 100% hydro if we wanted to, or solar, or wind... which is why we have an eclectic mix of generation sources.
 

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As EV's proliferate, utilities will be over loaded and make up for it by raising rates.
Nope.

The EVs will kill the power grid. Or will they?
"In the end, everything points to the grid being able to deal with EVs just fine, given the gradual nature of the increase in adoption (and it’s still gradual even if the most optimistic assessments turn out to be true). Furthermore, study after study has shown the effect of mass electric vehicle adoption on the grid is more than manageable."

Will add to that that EVs will get more efficient with time as technologies improve the same way laptops today need less energy that those 15 years ago. There are many ways EVs will get more efficient, one example being with the use of regenerative energy technologies like wind turbines
US8513828B1 - Wind turbine for electric car - Google Patents
Charging of car battery in electric vehicle by using wind energy
 

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Our utility, an REA, actively promotes EVs and believe me it's not because they're environmentalists. The board and management are conservative business people. We charge our cars in the middle of the night when wholesale rates are low and we pay the fixed retail rate, so it's a high margin sector as far as they're concerned. Since we have minimum effect on peak usage, they don't have to upgrade their equipment while we increase their revenue. Meanwhile, they have to upgrade all the time to accommodate new homes.

Here in the Columbia Basin (a major electric power generating region) there's arguments between generators about who has to shut down when demand is too low. Fossil fuel plants shut down as soon as the wholesale rate is too low to pay the gas bill, but wind machines and hydro don't like to shut down since they have very low operating expenses, but somebody has to shut down so they battled it out and came to some sort of agreement.
 

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Iowa is already trying to make up for the loss of gas tax by charging EV owners and extra $130 to register their car...
Yeah, Washington is charging $150 to fund road maintenance. It's not ideal but they haven't been willing to venture into a per mile tax. Obviously we need to keep paying our share of the gas tax, but EVs simply use a lot less energy than ICEs for the equivalent ride. Combine that with the fact that most EVs are charged off-peak, when there is usually plenty of available supply of electricity and you have a more efficient system which costs a lot less to operate than the ICE system.
 

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Combine that with the fact that most EVs are charged off-peak
Proof? I suspect that this is not actually a "fact". My bill would go up if I joined the "EV" plan here and charged off-peak. Some people charge at work, during peak hours. Many wealthier owners couldn't care less about saving $5 a month and charge whenever they want. Many non-wealthier owners prioritize convenience over saving a few bucks a month and charge when they want. Almost all travel related charging takes place at peak.
 

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Proof? I suspect that this is not actually a "fact". My bill would go up if I joined the "EV" plan here and charged off-peak. Some people charge at work, during peak hours. Many wealthier owners couldn't care less about saving $5 a month and charge whenever they want. Many non-wealthier owners prioritize convenience over saving a few bucks a month and charge when they want. Almost all travel related charging takes place at peak.
Some charging is done at peak, but a lot of it is done in the middle of the night and obviously that diminishes the impact of the increase in demand from the cars. The system has to be designed to meet absolute peak demand which occurs only rarely, while the revenues in most places are mostly proportional to average demand so if a new load increases average demand more than it increases peak demand, it improves the efficiency of the system. I'm not saying there's no impact to peak demand, I'm saying that the impact is more than offset by the increase in revenue without increasing prices.
The headlines are always about shortages, but they also shut down wind machines while the wind is blowing at night and spill water over dams because there's no market for electricity at that moment, so there's slack in the system in the wee hours in most places and cars take up some of that slack, diminishing their impact on the grid.
 

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LOL! Have you seen this one?


She acts like owning an EV makes you vulnerable to “the state” grounding you at their whim when it’s EXACTLY the opposite. Plenty of preppers worried about that have off-grid solar for EV charging. Heck, their car can even be a battery for storing energy for use when the water slows, the wind doesn’t blow, and the sun doesn’t shine. If “the state” were to “turn off” anything to ground us in place they’d cut the fossil fuel supply. Good luck mining, transporting, and refining your own petroleum into gasoline.

She’s exactly 180° out of phase with reality while making some bizarre association with a kettle… something few of us in 100 or 120v land even care to own.


Her only other point is similarly ridiculous. Recycling the batteries “somehow” is likely easier than mining the lithium “somehow” in the first place, which… obviously wasn’t so much of a hurdle to stop China from mining it. At least it’s already concentrated in one place when it comes to recycling an EV. The cost of new lithium is so low at the moment that there isn’t much pressure to recycle every single one of them but supply and demand will change that eventually and all these EV batteries will be an even bigger goldmine than they already are.

Psst… my brother totaled his 2013 Volt a couple weeks ago. Anyone looking for a battery? ;)
 

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You really don't need 'new capacity', just mandate rooftop solar on new builds. The cost would be less than retrofitting afterwards and is rolled into your mortgage. Since power is produced in the city, there is no 'grid cost' or grid addition. As long as we have favorable terms for people to plug in during the day at work (or at home for WTF folks) and leave work with full tank. Then, with V2G, power their home for the night.
California requires solar on new single-family homes. Of course, at current prices, it's hard to find one of those for <$1 million, so the cost component of the solar panels is essentially invisible. Main problem, though, is that net metering has been or will soon be eliminated in most of the state, unless you also have storage to go with the solar. So far, storage is NOT required by the state, but at least in my utility it is required in order to hook up power to the house with solar on it. Adding storage can more than double the cost of the system, so it does become noticeable.
 

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LOL! Have you seen this one?


She acts like owning an EV makes you vulnerable to “the state” grounding you at their whim when it’s EXACTLY the opposite. Plenty of preppers worried about that have off-grid solar for EV charging. Heck, their car can even be a battery for storing energy for use when the water slows, the wind doesn’t blow, and the sun doesn’t shine. If “the state” were to “turn off” anything to ground us in place they’d cut the fossil fuel supply. Good luck mining, transporting, and refining your own petroleum into gasoline.

She’s exactly 180° out of phase with reality while making some bizarre association with a kettle… something few of us in 100 or 120v land even care to own.


Her only other point is similarly ridiculous. Recycling the batteries “somehow” is likely easier than mining the lithium “somehow” in the first place, which… obviously wasn’t so much of a hurdle to stop China from mining it. At least it’s already concentrated in one place when it comes to recycling an EV. The cost of new lithium is so low at the moment that there isn’t much pressure to recycle every single one of them but supply and demand will change that eventually and all these EV batteries will be an even bigger goldmine than they already are.

Psst… my brother totaled his 2013 Volt a couple weeks ago. Anyone looking for a battery? ;)
We've had a Sunbeam Hot Shot in one form or another for years. They don't last forever, but they come close. Heats enough water for coffee in a minute or so. Though you need to ice it if somebody else needs to use it within 15 min. or so.
 
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