[Mike DZ]

That is huge. 96" (8 feet) is the legal maximum width for most states.

Um, no. 8' 6" is max (102") - and standard lane width is 10 ft while interstate lanes are 12 ft

Where can I find a list of states that don't require a helmet in 3 wheelers?

My research indicates only NH would require helmet use.

it was about lifting heavy luggage into the back,

You can flip the seat forward and load via the pax door.

 

[atc98092]

Um, no. 8' 6" is max (102") - and standard lane width is 10 ft while interstate lanes are 12 ft

Perhaps the law has changed since I drove bus, or perhaps it’s still the law in my state. I honestly don’t know.

 

[RacerX00]

@NortonCommando You'll need a Motorcycle's license in NY, MA and Alaska as well. NY has legislation that has passed both chambers of congress awaiting for governor signing. It's been tabled, no comments on as to why. I would expect it to get signed before the car starts to sell but legislation is the last thing I would ever bet on. Going by Polaris's map here which should be identical to the Aptera.

 

[LectricBill]

I just read this thread and felt compelled to add my 2 cents (16 cents with inflation). Maybe I can bolster RacerX00's valiant efforts.

First, I don’t consider myself much of a judge of business success, having bought a Brammo Empulse R electric motorcycle. Loved the bike; not so much the company that left me with an orphan machine with nobody having the software to work on the electronics. That said, from what I’ve seen of Aptera management’s approach, they seem to have not only a passionate goal, but also have level enough heads to come up with executable plans. I hope so, because, after all, I have a whole hundred bucks at stake.

Another poster here wished for a test drive. I’ve read on their site new purchasers have 7 days or 1000 miles (whichever comes first) as a trial period. If dissatisfied, the car can be returned for a full refund. I don’t know any other details.

As to safety, my understanding that the final production version will be put through the full automotive crash test sequences and the results published. Here’s a statement from their FAQ:

“We are designing to exceed all passenger car standards and the previous version had the highest roof crush strength of all passenger cars on the road, and it performed exceedingly well in actual side and frontal crash tests. Aptera features a Formula One-inspired safety cell with advanced composites and metal structures for impact strength. Similar to aerospace and racing, these energy-absorbing methods are a core part of our safety strategy and have proven effective time and time again in high-speed impacts. Aptera also makes use of today’s best forward and side airbag systems in case of an accident.”

Concerning looks: I spent 2000 hours underwater as an owner of a scuba diving shop in Hawaii. I think fish are beautiful. A car designed on the same principle of fluid dynamics appeals to me. My wife hates it, so there ya go. We find each other in life. I've got a couple of years to convince her.

Ending on a personal note, which might get me tossed far under the “fanboy” bus:

I’m pushing 80 years old. In 2017 I bought what I was sure would be my last car, a Chevy Bolt EV.
And yet here I am, with a reservation for an Aptera.
I still love the Bolt (with a new battery.) I don’t need an Aptera. At all.

So, I was asking myself, “Why? Why did you commit to buying another car?”
I mean you’d think I’m too old to fall for the impulsive buying that led me to buy a 1954 Austin Healy 100-4 in 1964, in need of an engine and tranny rebuild. Have I learned nothing?
The answer that came to me surprised me:
“Aptera is a car you can believe in.”

Everything about its design is pointing to the vision of a future that more of us need to rally behind if we are going to survive on this lovely planet.
I will be delighted to pass it on to my daughter.
Meanwhile, if I'm still here, I intend to drive it like I stole it.

 

[RacerX00]

I have a whole hundred bucks at stake.

I also just did this was Canoo. I was not planning to buy a Canoo but with the rumors Apple might come in and buy them while they drown, $100 is a good bet to place on being reservation #95XX on the first ever Apple car

 

[p7wang]

Qiantu unveils K20 $13,000 two-seat electric car

Qiantu K20 is a new two-seat electric car with up to 500 km (300 miles) of range and a starting price equivalent to just $13,000.

electrek.co

Aptera is going to have to find a way to get the price down to $15K or less.

 

[redpoint5]

I’m pushing 80 years old. In 2017 I bought what I was sure would be my last car, a Chevy Bolt EV.
And yet here I am, with a reservation for an Aptera.
I still love the Bolt (with a new battery.) I don’t need an Aptera. At all.

So, I was asking myself, “Why? Why did you commit to buying another car?”
I mean you’d think I’m too old to fall for the impulsive buying that led me to buy a 1954 Austin Healy 100-4 in 1964, in need of an engine and tranny rebuild. Have I learned nothing?
The answer that came to me surprised me:
“Aptera is a car you can believe in.”

Everything about its design is pointing to the vision of a future that more of us need to rally behind if we are going to survive on this lovely planet.
I will be delighted to pass it on to my daughter.
Meanwhile, if I'm still here, I intend to drive it like I stole it.

The average age of a new car buyer is 53, which surprised me when I first read that fact. Makes sense though, since youth don't have the money to buy new cars.

My take is the Aptera appeals to a very niche group of people. That's both the requirement for the company to succeed; by serving a market segment not yet served, but also the limitation. How many people will want a 2-seater with rough handling? Perhaps enough to make a viable company, but I would not say odds are in their favor.

Utility is extremely important to most people, which is why cars don't look like the Aptera. They are efficient enough when they are shaped like a Tesla. While the 332 MPGe of the Aptera is extraordinary, it's not as impactful as going from 25 MPG (typical ICE) to 132 MPGe (Tesla Model 3). The law of diminishing returns means that each increment in efficiency saves a smaller amount of energy.

 

[GJETSON]

Qiantu unveils K20 $13,000 two-seat electric car

Qiantu K20 is a new two-seat electric car with up to 500 km (300 miles) of range and a starting price equivalent to just $13,000.

electrek.co

Aptera is going to have to find a way to get the price down to $15K or less.

This is even less likely to be available in the US than Aptera. The numbers don't add up.

1700 pounds, and 300 mile range is nonsense. That is 683 pounds lighter than the last generation Mercedes built, Smart Fortwo. Even if it was twice as efficient as the Bolt, which it is not, that would require a 37.5 kWh battery at a absolute minimum weight of 450 pounds without liquid cooling. That leaves 1250 pounds for a car with Bolt sized drivetrain, airbags, crush areas, etc. Total BS.

 

[RacerX00]

This is even less likely to be available in the US than Aptera. The numbers don't add up.

1700 pounds, and 300 mile range is nonsense. That is 683 pounds lighter than the last generation Mercedes built, Smart Fortwo. Even if it was twice as efficient as the Bolt, which it is not, that would require a 37.5 kWh battery at a absolute minimum weight of 450 pounds without liquid cooling. That leaves 1250 pounds for a car with Bolt sized drivetrain, airbags, crush areas, etc. Total BS.

Dual motor, so, not a Bolt-sized drive train.

 

[OneEV]

Qiantu unveils K20 $13,000 two-seat electric car

Qiantu K20 is a new two-seat electric car with up to 500 km (300 miles) of range and a starting price equivalent to just $13,000.

electrek.co

Aptera is going to have to find a way to get the price down to $15K or less.

That will be wltp range 300 miles = roughly 240 miles range EPA

 

[RacerX00]

That will be wltp range 300 miles = roughly 240 miles range EPA

6 mi / kWh @ 40 kWh is a little more believable but would still be a bare bones vehicle.

 

[GJETSON]

Dual motor, so, not a Bolt-sized drive train.

They mention a single motor option. The single motor option is presumable about half the weight and power of the Bolt equivalent dual motor.

"The company didn’t disclose the energy capacity of the battery pack, but it says that the single motor version can travel up to 500 km (300 miles) on a single charge."

 

[p7wang]

That will be wltp range 300 miles = roughly 240 miles range EPA

Or worse, 210 EPA?

Here's How To Calculate Conflicting EV Range Test Cycles: EPA, WLTP, NEDC

EV range is super important as we push for adoption. However, with various test cycles, it can get quite confusing. Now, you can easily compare conflicting data.

insideevs.com

 

[LectricBill]

The average age of a new car buyer is 53, which surprised me when I first read that fact. Makes sense though, since youth don't have the money to buy new cars.

My take is the Aptera appeals to a very niche group of people. That's both the requirement for the company to succeed; by serving a market segment not yet served, but also the limitation. How many people will want a 2-seater with rough handling? Perhaps enough to make a viable company, but I would not say odds are in their favor.

Utility is extremely important to most people, which is why cars don't look like the Aptera. They are efficient enough when they are shaped like a Tesla. While the 332 MPGe of the Aptera is extraordinary, it's not as impactful as going from 25 MPG (typical ICE) to 132 MPGe (Tesla Model 3). The law of diminishing returns means that each increment in efficiency saves a smaller amount of energy.

Not sure where you got the "rough handling". The alpha models ARE harsh, but the main purpose of the current beta mule is to work out suspension. Roush Performance has been brought in to oversee this aspect. I imagine it will end up feeling like a well-executed sports car, which is fine by me. I had a custom setup on a set of premium Wilburs shocks on a BMW R1200R that transformed the ride: the suspension made the bike corner on rails AND absorb potholes like they weren't there. So there's hope!

I hear what you're saying about the diminishing returns of incremental improvements. Seems totally valid as you laid it out.

However, my thinking as I learned about Aptera involved a broader perspective. When starting from the idea of building the most efficient production transportation vehicle ever made (least aero drag, low weight, low rolling resistance), other attractive consequences flow from that. Smaller battery for the same range (lighter, faster charging), much longer ranges for a given battery capacity, and the real possibility of using onboard solar cells to add range to the car that is significantly useful to most users, especially commuters who live in apartment buildings.

So the sum total means more to attracting me to the Aptera than only the MPGe comparisons.

 

[Packard V8]

I had a custom setup on a set of premium Wilburs shocks on a BMW R1200R that transformed the ride: the suspension made the bike corner on rails AND absorb potholes like they weren't there. So there's hope!

Just asking, how much did you pay for the custom Wiburs setup installed? Last quote I got was almost two grand.

Reason for asking, I did a similar but different custom suspension setup of which I was justifiably proud. There was an occasion to show it to an OEM engineer and his take, "Yes, we know about those and how to do what you did. However, it could never make the cost-benefit cut. Our suspension parts essentially have to be ten dollar parts and yours are a thousand-and-ten dollar parts.

 

[redpoint5]

Not sure where you got the "rough handling". The alpha models ARE harsh, but the main purpose of the current beta mule is to work out suspension. Roush Performance has been brought in to oversee this aspect. I imagine it will end up feeling like a well-executed sports car, which is fine by me. I had a custom setup on a set of premium Wilburs shocks on a BMW R1200R that transformed the ride: the suspension made the bike corner on rails AND absorb potholes like they weren't there. So there's hope!

I hear what you're saying about the diminishing returns of incremental improvements. Seems totally valid as you laid it out.

However, my thinking as I learned about Aptera involved a broader perspective. When starting from the idea of building the most efficient production transportation vehicle ever made (least aero drag, low weight, low rolling resistance), other attractive consequences flow from that. Smaller battery for the same range (lighter, faster charging), much longer ranges for a given battery capacity, and the real possibility of using onboard solar cells to add range to the car that is significantly useful to most users, especially commuters who live in apartment buildings.

So the sum total means more to attracting me to the Aptera than only the MPGe comparisons.

Rough handling was just my observation of the promotional video where minor surface irregularities seemed to impact the vehicle quite a lot. It's also an assumption on my part considering the hub motors contribute to unsprung weight, and the relatively light weight of the vehicle itself (sprung mass). Happy to be wrong about my assumption, but my expectation on the Aptera forum is to see many "harsh ride" posts similar to how this forum used to have many "uncomfortable seat" threads.

Agreed that Aptera choose a niche that hasn't been served yet. I hope it's a big enough niche to propel the company along, but we'll see. Starting an automotive manufacturing company is nearly impossible.

 

[NortonCommando]

...Happy to be wrong about my assumption, but my expectation on the Aptera forum is to see many "harsh ride" posts similar to how this forum used to have many "uncomfortable seat" threads.

Agreed that Aptera choose a niche that hasn't been served yet....

Right. So why talk about it until there is data?
I've owned my '17 Bolt for 2 years. I still don't get the seat complaints.
Who knows how a really light weight, heavy unsprung-weight ratio, 3 wheel vehicle will actually feel from the seat of the pants?

I know who ! ,, professional auto magazine journalists. Are they still out there?
Have your read how they are getting well known engineering help involved in the development of the suspension system / handling?

Maybe it will be a niche. I can't tell.... I'm the guy that owned two different Gen 1 Honda Insights, about 8 years apart.
Second time I bought one I forgot it would not hold luggage for two to the airport.
The Aptera does not seem to have this problem!

I want one! Do I place the deposit now? Or wait and see?....

 

[redpoint5]

Right. So why talk about it until there is data?
I've owned my '17 Bolt for 2 years. I still don't get the seat complaints.
Who knows how a really light weight, heavy unsprung-weight ratio, 3 wheel vehicle will actually feel from the seat of the pants?

I know who ! ,, professional auto magazine journalists. Are they still out there?
Have your read how they are getting well known engineering help involved in the development of the suspension system / handling?

Maybe it will be a niche. I can't tell.... I'm the guy that owned two different Gen 1 Honda Insights, about 8 years apart.
Second time I bought one I forgot it would not hold luggage for two to the airport.
The Aptera does not seem to have this problem!

I want one! Do I place the deposit now? Or wait and see?....

The Gen I Insight sold like 17k total units between 1999 and 2006, which is basically none; a niche vehicle.

The Aptera is absolutely a niche vehicle. They have a max manufacturing capacity of 10k per year. If they sell as many as the gen I Insight, it would exceed my expectations.

You bought the Insight when it was new. You bought the Bolt when it was new... you should absolutely reserve the Aptera because clearly you're the early adopter type. We need people like you to take a risk and tell us who sit back and wait the pros and cons of a thing.

 

[NortonCommando]

...You bought the Insight when it was new. You bought the Bolt when it was new... you should absolutely reserve the Aptera because clearly you're the early adopter type. We need people like you to take a risk and tell us who sit back and wait the pros and cons of a thing.

Well, technically, both Insights were used, the Bolt was used. I like good for the environment, cheap to operate cars and Bargains. No MSRP for me...
I don't like buying from the Saudis, (which our gobmint fawns over for some reason.)
I twice bought new: '89 Geo Metro Base (the 58mpg one with $1000 in rebates. $5500 OTD) and a '13 Demo Volt (with the $7500 tax dealio).

You, sir, are at least interested in new tech when it comes to cars!
You talk about it, a lot. Don't know what you drive....
How often do you drive with more than one passenger?
How about it? You and me!! We cough up the reservation money and see what happens!!!
Or be patient and wait for a 2-3 year old one???

 

[RacerX00]

The Aptera is absolutely a niche vehicle. They have a max manufacturing capacity of 10k per year. If they sell as many as the gen I Insight, it would exceed my expectations.

The don't have 10k per year pre-orders, they have 100k per year pre-orders. I agree with you 100% but I will say there's something noticeably different here than say the Slingshot or Can-Am Spyder.

I wouldn't bet my retirement on it but I think this has a true ability to exceed the common niche status it was striving for. The biggest thing holding it back at this point I think is the 2-seater aspect. They built a car for a niche audience but got mass market pre-orders. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the 4-wheeler 5-seater concept vehicle before the year is out.