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Back to Aptera content, a family member who closely follows the EV market and orders every new introduction, is of the informed opinion Aptera is still very much vaporware and is willing to bet against their published timelines. He's still waiting for his Rivian.

jack vines
 

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Back to Aptera content, a family member who closely follows the EV market and orders every new introduction, is of the informed opinion Aptera is still very much vaporware and is willing to bet against their published timelines. He's still waiting for his Rivian.

jack vines
Is he informed over any one of us? I would have had a similar opinion up until recently when they began to double down on their delivery dates. I feel like access to batteries could be their biggest Achilles heel but they also just announced a supplier deal with Chery. Can't say I'm too thrilled with that name, but the Chinese can keep parts flowing as well.
 

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Not sure about your family member, but their light manufacturing facility is done, meaning it's just waiting for the assembly equipment, which they've already ordered from vendors in Michigan. The Aptera's six sub-assemblies are made by their suppliers, including the body. Basically the top and bottom half of the body is assembled on site and the two doors are attached. It only takes four employees to join the body and doors. The light manufacturing idea came from Sandy Munroe. The idea is you have the sub assemblies shipped to your light manufacturing plants where you simply join the assemblies together.

Again, I have no idea if the Aptera will be any good or even safe. But I think the simplicity of the vehicle makes it easier to design and manufacture. For those who enjoy keeping tabs on Aptera, I would check in on YouTube with the Aptera Owner's Club at the end of August and then perhaps in December. Those two dates should have much more information than what we currently have.
 

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I mean, it loses in every vehicle to vehicle collision except a motorcycle. In my view, safe enough. A 2-seater almost implies a vehicle not owned by someone with a family. Almost.
Does it? I'm not sure that it does. Again, this is all going off of what they're saying so grains of salt until we see the actual data but if the crumple zone is really built to launch the occupants in an industructible bubble going over whatever it's hitting, I think the majority of cars lose unless its big enough for somehow to get over the Aptera, which, unless it's a semi, it can't. So you're absorbing and transfering force with your crumple zone with the heavier object, losing for certain in that battle, but then the battle is over and you're fine. From a safety perspective after the initial impact you definitely want to be in the roll cage for, you know, the rolling part.

I'm extremely biased because I have PR message points from Smart's roll cage in my head. This is their roll cage but way stronger. I'm high on how this thing will perform in crashes. It implements almost everything that keeps a race car driver safe sans restraints and anti-flip aero stuff. Speaking of the latter, they're talking about putting that in as a safety innovation over other cars. Car is light enough that those little nascar flaps could have a real effect.

As for the 2-seater thing, again, it's a little different living right outside of NYC. As long as we have 1 car that can take 3+ that's all we really need, period, end of story. The single-person commutes or dropping off 1 child somewhere can all be handled in the Aptera and that's way over 95% of all drives taken in my house.

I'm guessing the 2-seater thing is true for a heck of a lot more Americans out there too, they're just not as incentivized to keep it small and cheap as people who live in urban areas. We'll see when the next gas spike price happens in 5-10 years, they tend to get Americans to re-think stupid, big, guzzling car decisions.
 

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...The first car was far different. Less efficient, no hub motors, the solar only ran the BMS which was active instead of air cooled built into the body frame, really it's an entirely different car except for the shape.
Their first cars were gassers but with amazing MPG figures, correct?

As for the word BMS, to me that means Managing the battery by controlling Max charge and discharge currents, max/min Voltages for its SOC range, Cell Balancing, and communicating to displays and other systems, and probably other things I don't understand...;)

TMS is Thermal management. A separate function.
I think we should start using this distinction.:unsure:

I don't understand how this car has coolant based TMS and claims to 'use the body frame' as it's heat exchanger. The body is composite material, not a good heat transfer material.
(I've seen experimental aircraft where the coolant lines are bonded to the inside of the aluminum skin as the heat exchanger.)
And if it's painted black, the body is solar heating some of the time.
And when operating in 100°F conditions where is the battery pack heat supposed to go?
And when it's -7° what will warm the pack to a decent operating temp?
(We've already questioned if this is a winter capable car on snow covered roads...)

The Bolt and other EV's have a coolant based TMS that is freon cooled and resistance heated.
Isn't this sort of TMS needed for an EV? It is for me to take it seriously.
(y)

Side note: I bought a second 1st Gen Insight after a stint with TDI's.
But when I remembered it doesn't have the cargo space for luggage for two on the way to the airport, it had to go..:rolleyes:

What good it an ultra efficient EV two seater if you can't pack for road trips with it?
Maybe a motorcycle trailer?
 
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Their first cars were gassers but with amazing MPG figures, correct?

As for the word BMS, to me that means Managing the battery by controlling Max charge and discharge currents, max Voltages for its SOC range, Cell Balancing, and communicating to displays and other systems, and probably other things I don't understand...;)

TMS is Thermal management. A separate function.
I think we should start using this distinction.:unsure:
I do apologize, I thought BMS was what people who drove Bolts called TMS, thank you for the clarification :D

I don't understand how this car has coolant based TMS and claims to 'use the body frame' as it's heat exchanger. The body is composite material, not a good heat transfer material.
(I've seen experimental aircraft where the coolant lines are bonded to the inside of the aluminum skin as the heat exchanger.)
And if it's painted black, the body is solar heating some of the time. And when operating in 100°F conditions where is the battery pack heat supposed to go?
And when it's -7° what will warm the pack to a decent operating temp?
(We've already questioned if this is a winter capable car on snow covered roads...)

The Bolt and other EV's have a coolant based TMS that is freon cooled and resistance heated.
Isn't this sort of TMS needed for an EV? It is for me to take it seriously.(y)


It's the best of both worlds. It can completely keep itself air cooled but also has the TMS. The air cooling isn't to completely supplant the coolant, it's to use less energy to keep the pack at ideal temps. He said the only time they've had the TMS kick on while driving was in summer heat going up hill at max throttle.



Side note: I bought a second 1st Gen Insight after a stint with TDI's.
But when I remembered it doesn't have the cargo space for luggage for two on the way to the airport, it had to go..:rolleyes:

What good it an ultra efficient EV two seater if you can't pack for road trips with it?
Maybe a motorcycle trailer?
I mean, the size is the size. I will say that people underestimate the vastness of the cargo capacity, it's larger than any SUV trunk you can buy. I think the cargo area is 29.6 cubic feet which is ungodly for a trunk.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you can fit a container size truck into a 1700-2000 lb. vehicle. 😁
 

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Only car I've owned that couldn't fit a bicycle is the Acura TSX, because it's a sedan. The others could fit 2 or 3 bikes.

I'm wondering if large checked baggage can fit in there? Minimum space in my view would be 2 large bags, and 2 carry-on.

I also wonder if the thing can accept a trailer hitch, because that would seriously improve it's utility. I've got a folding Harbor Freight 4x8 trailer that takes up practically no space in the garage that I use for everything.
 

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Only car I've owned that couldn't fit a bicycle is the Acura TSX, because it's a sedan. The others could fit 2 or 3 bikes.

I'm wondering if large checked baggage can fit in there? Minimum space in my view would be 2 large bags, and 2 carry-on.

I also wonder if the thing can accept a trailer hitch, because that would seriously improve it's utility. I've got a folding Harbor Freight 4x8 trailer that takes up practically no space in the garage that I use for everything.
By the specs and from what I've seen yeah, for certain. I mean it's something we'll get 3rd party confirmation on too well before it times to sign on the dotted line. Here's what their official videos say on it:


(God this one is cringe. Makes me want to see if they're hiring, LOL!)
 

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Only car I've owned that couldn't fit a bicycle is the Acura TSX, because it's a sedan. The others could fit 2 or 3 bikes.

I'm wondering if large checked baggage can fit in there? Minimum space in my view would be 2 large bags, and 2 carry-on.

I also wonder if the thing can accept a trailer hitch, because that would seriously improve it's utility. I've got a folding Harbor Freight 4x8 trailer that takes up practically no space in the garage that I use for everything.
It seems like the lift-over would be prohibitive for anything with significant mass. The guy is huffing and puffing putting a 20-25 lb. bike in there. Maybe a large bag could slide in if it had wheels, but once you had the first one in, the second might be a tough fit.
 

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It seems like the lift-over would be prohibitive for anything with significant mass. The guy is huffing and puffing putting a 20-25 lb. bike in there. Maybe a large bag could slide in if it had wheels, but once you had the first one in, the second might be a tough fit.
I'm not quite certain how you could look at those videos and conclude that. I'm also not certain how you can fault that car for fitting an adult male's bike with room for what looks like another if you pack it right. We go out and spend thousands to be able to carry bikes and this car can do it right out of the... website.

God, I did not sign up to be an Aptera apologist, it just happened to me.
 

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...God, I did not sign up to be an Aptera apologist, it just happened to me.
No, thank you for posting this stuff! I wouldn't have found it without you!
After seeing these videos I'm now convinced. It's not a Gen 1 Insight behind the seats...
I saw the 'Tent' option also on the site!
I want one now!
Where can I find a list of states that don't require a helmet in 3 wheelers?

All I need is for my Spark EV's pack to go dead before the end of the warranty, (in a few months), and take the buy back from gm. The pack is going strong, unfortunately.;) I don't want a 3rd EV....
 

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No, thank you for posting this stuff! I wouldn't have found it without you!
After seeing these videos I'm now convinced. It's not a Gen 1 Insight behind the seats...
I saw the 'Tent' option also on the site!
I want one now!
Where can I find a list of states that don't require a helmet in 3 wheelers?

All I need is for my Spark EV's pack to go dead before the end of the warranty, (in a few months), and take the buy back from gm. The pack is going strong, unfortunately.;) I don't want a 3rd EV....
As a backpacker I'm not a huge fan of that tent until I see people actually like it in practice. $600 goes a long way towards an ultralight shelter of the same general proportions. The whole way if you're willing to go sly-nylon. If people like it and it can keep the cabin a certain temp (and importantly, dry) then I'll give it another look. I'm just not a huge fan of going somewhere and then sleeping in or by my car. If my car can get there, there should be walls, otherwise, get me away from where cars go before I pitch camp.
 

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I'm not quite certain how you could look at those videos and conclude that. I'm also not certain how you can fault that car for fitting an adult male's bike with room for what looks like another if you pack it right. We go out and spend thousands to be able to carry bikes and this car can do it right out of the... website.

God, I did not sign up to be an Aptera apologist, it just happened to me.
You're a hoot. Feel free to hold a 50 lb. duffel out at arms length for a few minutes.

I'm not sure how we got to thousands(!) to carry a bike, and I wasn't even commenting on the ability to carry a bike, but the ability to handle 2 large bags and a few carry-ons.
 

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You're a hoot. Feel free to hold a 50 lb. duffel out at arms length for a few minutes.

I'm not sure how we got to thousands(!) to carry a bike, and I wasn't even commenting on the ability to carry a bike, but the ability to handle 2 large bags and a few carry-ons.
Don't you have to lift the bike higher to get it on on your roofs? This seems far lower than a truck tail gate, I've never had a concern lifting anything into it, why should I have concerns here? It certainly looks like from what we're being shown 2 duffel bags and 2 carry-ons should fit fine.

It just seems like doing this is way less overall physical exertion then lifting and locking it onto a roof or tail hitch mount.

And yeah man, thousands. I have a family of 4, you can't get 4 bikes on vehicles without spending over $1k, add in other stuff and it gets there. You're on to me in that I'm using the wrong math as clearly I can't fit my entire family's bikes in there.

If we had to buy this thing and commit to $25k+ right now I wouldn't be so evangelical about it. I just feel like for $100, refundable, what am I risking? I'm like reservation #15,XXX according to my order number, so, going to be a lot of Apteras around in reviewers hands at that point. The order estimate from when I placed mine a week ago was 2023-2024. Got a lot of time to change your mind, a lot of waiting if you decide later you made a mistake.

Pretty safe FOMO decision for me, personally.
 

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Don't you have to lift the bike higher to get it on on your roofs? This seems far lower than a truck tail gate, I've never had a concern lifting anything into it, why should I have concerns here? It certainly looks like from what we're being shown 2 duffel bags and 2 carry-ons should fit fine.

It just seems like doing this is way less overall physical exertion then lifting and locking it onto a roof or tail hitch mount.

And yeah man, thousands. I have a family of 4, you can't get 4 bikes on vehicles without spending over $1k, add in other stuff and it gets there. You're on to me in that I'm using the wrong math as clearly I can't fit my entire family's bikes in there.

If we had to buy this thing and commit to $25k+ right now I wouldn't be so evangelical about it. I just feel like for $100, refundable, what am I risking? I'm like reservation #15,XXX according to my order number, so, going to be a lot of Apteras around in reviewers hands at that point. The order estimate from when I placed mine a week ago was 2023-2024. Got a lot of time to change your mind, a lot of waiting if you decide later you made a mistake.

Pretty safe FOMO decision for me, personally.
You seem obsessed with the whole bike thing. My point wasn't about the bike, it was about lifting heavy luggage into the back, over those wide overhangs. Forget about the bike. I wouldn't use a roof rack for a host of reasons that have been discussed on other threads. I would (and do) use a tray style hitch mounted rack. Which could accommodate 4 bikes. If you need more, use a hangar style. That being said, you're not getting 4 bikes into the Aptera, nor your family of 4. Tossing a light road bike into the Aptera is doable. Wouldn't want to try do that with a 75 lb. e-bike.

Nobody (I don't think) is saying you shouldn't buy one of these. Even if it's terrible, you could buy something much less useful for more money. Your money is your money. I think some people are speculating it won't have mass appeal, and the company might not be viable. So what. They sell 25-30k slingshots a year, so maybe it's viable, although Polaris has a ton of other products that could be propping that up.
 

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You seem obsessed with the whole bike thing. My point wasn't about the bike, it was about lifting heavy luggage into the back, over those wide overhangs. Forget about the bike. I wouldn't use a roof rack for a host of reasons that have been discussed on other threads. I would (and do) use a tray style hitch mounted rack. Which could accommodate 4 bikes. If you need more, use a hangar style. That being said, you're not getting 4 bikes into the Aptera, nor your family of 4. Tossing a light road bike into the Aptera is doable. Wouldn't want to try do that with a 75 lb. e-bike.

Nobody (I don't think) is saying you shouldn't buy one of these. Even if it's terrible, you could buy something much less useful for more money. Your money is your money. I think some people are speculating it won't have mass appeal, and the company might not be viable. So what. They sell 25-30k slingshots a year, so maybe it's viable, although Polaris has a ton of other products that could be propping that up.
Not obsessed with anything (but the car, clearly). I dunno the overhangs don't seem too nuts to me but I'm still in my 40s, so. It really doesn't look any worse than an SUV but who knows until you own it?

Could always just have a bumper guard so you can rest luggage on it 😁
 
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